Ski Resort Response to COVID-19

kingslug · Nov 12, 2020

Yup..but its usually after midnight. We'll see how it goes but I fear further lockdowns at this point. So many businesses are gone for good.
And as far as owning second homes in VT..yup..we pay property taxes. But as I've said before..there is no play book for this one.

Zermatt · Nov 12, 2020

No mentions that VT skiing is not viable with only Vermonters. Ski areas are depending on the rules being broken.

Making snow is incredibly expensive. It is such a delicate balance now. They have to make snow, but it could all go to waste.

BenedictGomez · Nov 12, 2020

billo said:
VT skiing is not viable with only Vermonters. Ski areas are depending on the rules being broken.

This is the part that shouldn't be spoken out loud.

On its' face, State of Vermont's "mandatory guidance for ski areas" are patently absurd in this context, and they obviously know it. It makes no sense financially, and if they were literally going to follow State of Vermont's guidance & expect everyone else to follow it, they simply wouldn't open this year.

This is the ski industry & government's version of, The Emperor Wears No Clothes.

https://accd.vermont.gov/sites/accdnew/files/documents/Vermont%20Ski%20Resort%20COVID-19%20Winter%20Operations%20Guidance%20-%202020-11-03.pdf

cdskier · Nov 12, 2020

billo said:
No mentions that VT skiing is not viable with only Vermonters. Ski areas are depending on the rules being broken.

Making snow is incredibly expensive. It is such a delicate balance now. They have to make snow, but it could all go to waste.

100% agree. I've repeatedly said that any VTers that think a "locals only" skiing option is actually viable for any major resort are delusional. If there was actually strict compliance with the rules, most of your passes that were sold would have to be refunded/deferred. No way ski resorts operate anywhere close to normally if you suddenly force their hand into giving back the majority of their pass revenue. (And before someone says that allowing pass-holders to defer the values of their passes to next season would still mean the resorts have the money now...think about it. Is a resort going to spend that "deferred pass-holder" money on ops this year when a fraction of their clientele would be on the mountain or are they going to simply hold onto that money and spend it next year when all those "deferred" pass-holders are back?)

ss20 · Nov 12, 2020

Bridger Bowl, MT giving some interesting insight....

Skiing by Numbers, Bridger Bowl 2020

Opening with approximately 1,500 reservation spots to allow staff and guests to adjust to new procedures

Increase to approximately 3,000 as quickly as feasible

80% of reservations are for pass holders

20% of reservations are for day tickets and other users

2,500 was the average daily skier visit from 2019-2020

Same thing that's been said since the day this crap was announced. And same thing that's been shown early on in these reservations. Don't ski weekends. Buy a pass.

ss20 · Nov 13, 2020

Tremblant also pushing back opening to November 27th....another Alterra resort. That makes Solitude (who hasn't even started making snow), Winter Park, and Tremblant all having their openings delayed.

Wasn't there some crazy rumor about Alterra barely making it through the summer? Perhaps that had more truth to it than we gave it credit to.

Slidebrook87 · Nov 13, 2020

I’m still pretty confident that Sugarbush can open on the 21st. They seem to have a really good window for snowmaking starting the 14th and staying consistent after the 16th. Yes, it doesn’t give much time, but it’s still a possibility. It also looks like there’s some natural coming their way. I’m not sure about Killington though since they seem to be fixated on top to bottom skiing on opening day. Not sure how they’ll be able to do that with such a short snowmaking window.

mbedle · Nov 13, 2020

flakeydog said:
That's a good question because given where most of the country is right now, it will probably happen.
There will be 3 main groups
1) the self-justifying crew that are "super-careful" and know better than the rest of us
2) people that just don't give a crap and will come anyway, "What's the big deal? Rules are for suckers"
3) those that feel VT "owes" them something followed up by patronizing threats to throw their money around in some other state but will grace us with their presence anyway.

Potential result- cases surge here and everything shuts down ruining it for everyone. After all, if I can't come to Vermont and ski, no one should.

Vermont did not cause this and the last thing we want to do is keep our visitors out. We are not idiots. We know it is causing great harm to our economy but it pales in comparison to what it will be like if we have to totally shut down again. Believe it or, some of us live here, we work here, have our kids in school here. It is no accident that cases, hospitalizations and mortality is low here. We are trying to keep it that way despite your vacation plans.

I liked to add that there are some of us that can and will quarantine. Fortunate enough here to work at home and live alone.

skimagic · Nov 13, 2020

mbedle said:
I liked to add that there are some of us that can and will quarantine. Fortunate enough here to work at home and live alone.

Exactly, this is also my plan just to get a few visits in VT this season.

The lodging association is pissed off.

Lodging businesses: State’s quarantine announcement sends wrong message

After a spate of cancellations, inns and B&Bs want the state to make clear that people can still visit Vermont.

vtdigger.org

kingslug · Nov 13, 2020

Have you read what Biden's advisors are saying about a 4 to 6 week lockdown. OY

abc · Nov 13, 2020

mbedle said:
I liked to add that there are some of us that can and will quarantine. Fortunate enough here to work at home and live alone.

While I belong to the group that can fully self quarantine, I’m not going to ski in Vermont unless...

The state somehow enforce the restrictions so the slopes are super empty!

I’m not going to bother with the hassle of skiing in Vermont if it‘s just the usual shit show of crowds plus lines. Add the lines to bathroom on top of that? No thanks.

It’s of course easy for me to say that since I haven’t bought a pass, so have no financial stake for skipping this season altogether.
If I were to ski occasionally, it would be to destination with less travel hassle.

What a super empty slope means for mountains, is not my concern. That’s for Vermonters to figure out. I got the impression that’s exactly what they want, empty slopes and no Covid-19. And they’re willing to accept the financial impact of that. Good for them.

tumbler · Nov 13, 2020

It wouldn't surprise me to see early season snowmaking dramatically cut back or eliminated. Going to open on natural or 1 or 2 manmade trails and that's it. If they open. Too much risk right now, they need to preserve every dollar they have. The state better start preparing a bail out package.

cdskier · Nov 13, 2020

Slidebrook87 said:
I’m still pretty confident that Sugarbush can open on the 21st. They seem to have a really good window for snowmaking starting the 14th and staying consistent after the 16th. Yes, it doesn’t give much time, but it’s still a possibility. It also looks like there’s some natural coming their way. I’m not sure about Killington though since they seem to be fixated on top to bottom skiing on opening day. Not sure how they’ll be able to do that with such a short snowmaking window.

K has substantially more snowmaking fire-power than SB does at Lincoln Peak, yet you're confident that SB can open but not sure about K? Don't forget that the term "Top to bottom" at K is a bit misleading. They're talking about T2B at individual peaks. A T2B route at Snowden peak is about 100' less vertical than Sugarbush's Valley House side route that they plan to open first. A T2B route off K peak if they want to use the gondola is only ~1600' of vertical. K also has an elevation advantage. The terrain they would target first has an elevation of ~2500' at the base of K/Snowden whereas SB's base at LP is ~1600' and the top of VH is only around the 2800' mark.

If SB can open (requires a route off VH and GH), then I'm sure K will be able to hit their mark as well.

drjeff · Nov 13, 2020

kingslug said:
Have you read what Biden's advisors are saying about a 4 to 6 week lockdown. OY

I irony of it, especially is if he does as he says and rejoins the World Health Organization, is that the WHO came out 2 or 3 weeks ago and explicitly stated that they are now against any more lockdowns, since that for the majority of people, the indirect side effects from a lock down (financial and psychological) are of far greater problem for the majority than the disease process itself

skiur · Nov 13, 2020

Slidebrook87 said:
I’m still pretty confident that Sugarbush can open on the 21st. They seem to have a really good window for snowmaking starting the 14th and staying consistent after the 16th. Yes, it doesn’t give much time, but it’s still a possibility. It also looks like there’s some natural coming their way. I’m not sure about Killington though since they seem to be fixated on top to bottom skiing on opening day. Not sure how they’ll be able to do that with such a short snowmaking window.

Before the stairway (which is like 7 years now) K would blow great northern down to bunnybuster and open top to bottom and did that in two days of snowmaking. Not saying they will do that, just saying they could.

VTKilarney · Nov 13, 2020

Word on the street is that Governor Scott will announce today that bars and restaurants must close. He is also going to announce curtailment of sports activities. I suspect that school sports will be cancelled. I am not sure if he will announce any new restrictions for skiing.

machski · Nov 13, 2020

drjeff said:
I irony of it, especially is if he does as he says and rejoins the World Health Organization, is that the WHO came out 2 or 3 weeks ago and explicitly stated that they are now against any more lockdowns, since that for the majority of people, the indirect side effects from a lock down (financial and psychological) are of far greater problem for the majority than the disease process itself

They had Osterholm walking that lockdown idea back yesterday and today. Claims that was an earlier report he authored and has never advised Biden as such. Yeah, ok.

With that said, I have seen some early pandemic interviews with Osterholm, he seemed more level headed and matter of fact than Fauci then.

BenedictGomez · Nov 13, 2020

abc said:
What a super empty slope means for mountains, is not my concern. That’s for Vermonters to figure out. I got the impression that’s exactly what they want, empty slopes and no Covid-19. And they’re willing to accept the financial impact of that. Good for them.

The former will not prevent the latter anymore than not having skiing in November has not kept COVID19 out of Vermont.

ss20 · Nov 13, 2020

VTKilarney said:
Word on the street is that Governor Scott will announce today that bars and restaurants must close. He is also going to announce curtailment of sports activities. I suspect that school sports will be cancelled. I am not sure if he will announce any new restrictions for skiing.

Any other state in the country have bars and restaurants back to takeout only? None that I know of. And it's because Vermont is....by far...the least Covid-inflicted state in the country.

I feel like you're almost asking your population to break the rules at that point. Why penalize the people who are doing the best job? Hey if the bars close NY, MA, and NH have their bars and restaurants open, what's stopping VT people from going there?

BenedictGomez · Nov 13, 2020

drjeff said:
I irony of it, especially is if he does as he says and rejoins the World Health Organization, is that the WHO came out 2 or 3 weeks ago and explicitly stated that they are now against any more lockdowns, since that for the majority of people, the indirect side effects from a lock down (financial and psychological) are of far greater problem for the majority than the disease process itself

In late October when polls showed the majority of Americans being against a national lockdown, Biden specifically tweeted that he would not lockdown the country. Hopefully he ignores the advisor & goes with that.

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