Ski Resort Response to COVID-19

HowieT2 · Nov 18, 2020

drjeff said:
Unless you're talking a true, shoulder to shoulder for an extended time situation like in a true bar setting, the data in general just doesn't show that restaurants, when utilized in a socially distanced table spacing way, are the cause,

A good deal of what is causing the spike now is traced back to often at home gatherings, around Halloween, where mask use, social distancing, and often a few adult beverages, were involved.

If a full scientific, as opposed to a bit of reactionary paranoia, was taken with the approach to things, you'd likely see a much more normal day to day society with respect to most businesses, with a bit of mask use, social distancing and hand/face hygiene added in, And no major spreader events attributed to restaurants

Could you share the data indicating that the virus is not spreading in restaurant settings? I haven't seen anything to that effect but have seen case studies documenting viral transmission in restaurants.
It seems to me, indoor dining is problematic because diners can't wear masks and are expelling air and virus from the lungs when speaking. This is in contrast to public transportation like trains and planes, where people wear masks and dont speak much. same thing with classrooms.

abc · Nov 18, 2020

dblskifanatic said:
So I have a question - How many here believe restaurants are responsible for recent covid spread? I ask this because we eat out often 3-4 times per week since they opened back up and in 4 different states and it seems that if restaurants were that risky my wife and I would have gotten it by now.

California is shutting down restaurants again, New Mexico has, Colorado is now at 25% capacity. Florida seems to be doing the opposite.

People we know locally that work in the industry are scared about their jobs and I think they could remain open as they were. I think politicians want to be seen as having an answer and make decisions that contradict. Football is being played at all levels, Airlines like Delta and American are packing their planes, Universities opened up, rioting is still happening, etc.

I'm not sure you can draw any conclusion from that.

Back in Feb/March, I was working in NYC. I spent 8 hrs in a crowded building. Rode elevator ups and down, Rode subway everyday. I eat out as a routine. Yes, 3-4 times a week AT THE MINIMUM. I also attended concerts (mass gathering, lot of singing). All the way up to the week when they got the New Rochelle case.

My Mom? She spent 3-4 hrs at her daily bridge game, where people ALL touch cards. Jammed in a small room with 30-40 people. All the way till the day of the lockdown.

You could have said the same "we would have gotten it by now"! Yet, we didn't get it. Can we take that to say working 8 hrs in the office daily isn't a problem? Can we say attending an opera with thousands isn't a problem? Can we say riding a jam packed subway isn't a problem?

If none of those are problem, (because we didn't get sick), what is?

So just because you and your wife didn't get sick from eating out 3-4 times a week, it doesn't really say much about the safety of eating in restaurants. All you can say is you didn't get sick! Maybe you were lucky that no one in those restaurants had it to begin with. Or you might have had it but showed no symptom. It doesn't say eating in restaurant is "safe".

abc · Nov 18, 2020

JimG. said:
I totally agree with you about totally non-essential activities such as pro sports, flying or demonstrating. All the resources wasted on those things should be devoted to schools, universities and healthcare.

I'm not sure how much more essential eating out is in comparison to pro sport.

Schools are "more essential". I would argue flying is pretty essential too, for the right purpose, that is.

NYDB · Nov 18, 2020

nhskier1969 said:
Agree, the problem with the first go around is there were alot of buisness that got it but didn't deserve it. IE Havard for 46 million. The next go around should be for companies that sales have gone down 50% or more. That would weed out the over half that got it last time. Like a said in a comment before, If local government shuts down local business before there is aid to these businesses most won't make it thru January.
You also can say the same thing about local ski areas. If they shut down the ski resort all the mom and pop resorts will go under. Leaving the Ikon and epic companies buying these resorts for pennies of the dollar. Do readers in this thread really think guys like Magic, Burke, Bolton Valley will make it thru this winter if half of the season is shut down?

from Seasons Pass Protection Thread

Jamaica Man

Hmmmm. Magic will not go bankrupt even if all ski areas, in a worst case scenario, are closed all next season. We have capital and a strong investor group. We may be better positioned to handle a one season shutdown than some of the bigger players...

JimG. · Nov 18, 2020

abc said:
I'm not sure how much more essential eating out is in comparison to pro sport.

Schools are "more essential". I would argue flying is pretty essential too, for the right purpose, that is.

That whooshing sound is my point going over your head about restaurants. I merely stated that a well run restaurant is sanitary and with temperature checks and social distancing probably as safe as any "essential" business. I never compared restaurants to pro sports, I compared them to well run doctor's offices and hospitals.. But since you brought it up, allowing restaurants, many of which are small businesses, to operate at some at least break even levels is far more important in the social context than pro sports. Making sure already millionaire pro athletes and owners are made whole is not a priority.

I knew you would pick out the flying reference too. Perhaps flying is essential in some context, but these airlines are packing planes full. Go ahead and defend that practice in our current situation.

Harvey · Nov 18, 2020

nhskier1969 said:
Agree, the problem with the first go around is there were alot of buisness that got it but didn't deserve it.

Wasn't talking about PPP. While I'm sure it was "frauded" the idea is sound IMO.

The idea of the 3 trillion was to buy us some time. But we didn't do anything really, besides whine about our freedom. We made no use of the time we bought.

Harvey · Nov 18, 2020

Brewbeer said:
People who hold fat stock portfolios might disagree.

People who judge stock performance over a 6 month period are insider trading, or clueless. IMO.

People who use the stock market as a measure of well-being... sigh.

icecoast1 · Nov 18, 2020

Harvey said:
Wasn't talking about PPP. While I'm sure it was "frauded" the idea is sound IMO.

The idea of the 3 trillion was to buy us some time. But we didn't do anything really, besides whine about our freedom. We made no use of the time we bought.

Theres two vaccines that are going to be here soon on top of the therapeutics that have been developed. Seems like we did quite a bit with the time that was bought

Harvey · Nov 18, 2020

I think we'd be there (here) no matter what. It's all good if you don't get sick, or die, or suffer mental illness, or lose your job, or become a long termer or....

spiderpig · Nov 18, 2020

JimG. said:
Here too. I was refused a test for my son before he left for college because he was not sick (no symptoms anyway). I tried to get one for no reason myself and was told the same thing.

I have heard that certain areas are getting free unlimited testing. Probably a NYC/LI thing.

I just don't want to deal with tests and quarantines every time I want to ski. But there should be testing for all no questions asked.

Rite Aids and CVS's in certain states, but there are only two Rite Aids in CT doing it. Getting tougher to get an appointment. There are local places by me that you have to stand in line, no appointments taken.

BenedictGomez · Nov 18, 2020

Vermont was just added to New Jersey's "Do Not Go There" state list.

My how the tables have turned.

BenedictGomez · Nov 18, 2020

icecoast1 said:
Theres two vaccines that are going to be here soon on top of the therapeutics that have been developed. Seems like we did quite a bit with the time that was bought

Likely at least four. AZN & JNJ are both on deck & should report out within a few weeks. There are rumors that they wont hit the 95% effectiveness that PFE & MRNA's vaccines both have, but hopefully they can get to 90% at least. Things are looking up.

abc · Nov 18, 2020

JimG. said:
Perhaps flying is essential in some context, but these airlines are packing planes full. Go ahead and defend that practice in our current situation.

Not all the airlines are packing their planes. It's people's choice to NOT fly on those cattle carriers. But clearly many were willing to fly in a full plane. Just as many are prepared to flaunt the quarantine rule to ski in VT.

Blame it on the airlines?

Or for that matter, blame the government for doing a lot of wrong things? Take a look at the mirror on the behavior of our fellow PEOPLE!

As for restaurants, there're "well sanitized" ones. But how many are WELL VENTILATED? And how do you know if your waiter, or the chef are not going to work while sick? That's not to mention there're those that aren't even close to "well sanitized"!

In the end, it's always that way, the bad apples spoils it for the rest.

nhskier1969 · Nov 18, 2020

Are there many people on this thread who are completely concerned about covid that they haven't left their house since mid March and when the vaccine comes out, they won't take it?

Zermatt · Nov 18, 2020

nhskier1969 said:
Are there many people on this thread who are completely concerned about covid that they haven't left their house since mid March and when the vaccine comes out, they won't take it?

Lots of basement dwellers here.

I personally flew to AZ last month, on a packed plane both ways. On a trip purely for pleasure. It was amazing. Guess what, I didn't get Covid either.

NYDB · Nov 18, 2020

Damn this place is so packed full o‘ douches It’s amazing. I mean, I’m on a few cycling forums and even the roadies can‘t compare with some of these guys

JimG. · Nov 18, 2020

abc said:
Not all the airlines are packing their planes. It's people's choice to NOT fly on those cattle carriers. But clearly many were willing to fly in a full plane. Just as many are prepared to flaunt the quarantine rule to ski in VT.

Blame it on the airlines?

Or for that matter, blame the government for doing a lot of wrong things? Take a look at the mirror on the behavior of our fellow PEOPLE!

As for restaurants, there're "well sanitized" ones. But how many are WELL VENTILATED? And how do you know if your waiter, or the chef are not going to work while sick? That's not to mention there're those that aren't even close to "well sanitized"!

In the end, it's always that way, the bad apples spoils it for the rest.

Again, I'm not blaming anyone...I'm simply pointing out what I consider to be practices that are counter to common sense considering our situation.

And in the end we agree about the bad apples. And that's what it all boils down to.

JimG. · Nov 18, 2020

icecoast1 said:
Theres two vaccines that are going to be here soon on top of the therapeutics that have been developed. Seems like we did quite a bit with the time that was bought

I tend to agree with this; we are far better off now than in March.

I just want to ski without any hassles.

I think the $3T was wasted in the sense that it went to places that really didn't need it.

JimG. · Nov 18, 2020

billo said:
Lots of basement dwellers here.

I personally flew to AZ last month, on a packed plane both ways. On a trip purely for pleasure. It was amazing. Guess what, I didn't get Covid either.

How would you know that?

If my comment about packed airplanes bothers you, calm down...I don't like flying and wouldn't get on an airplane if there was no pandemic so my opinion about airlines is besides the point. Here in America if you like to fly that's your right and I respect that.

I've been fishing since the stupid lockdown started and I've been all over the NE driving save for VT.

And guess what? I didn't get COVID either.

nhskier1969 · Nov 18, 2020

JimG. said:
How would you know that?

If my comment about packed airplanes bothers you, calm down...I don't like flying and wouldn't get on an airplane if there was no pandemic so my opinion about airlines is besides the point. Here in America if you like to fly that's your right and I respect that.

I've been fishing since the stupid lockdown started and I've been all over the NE driving save for VT.

And guess what? I didn't get COVID either.

I just wish the government would let people live there lives. If everyone would be respectful for the people around them. passing someone walking put the mask over your face. try to keep some room apart from the next person. Other than that let people live there lives. If you are concerned that you live with an elderly person then self quarantine until a vaccine comes out. If you don't feel comfortable going to the gym, restaurant, skiing and ski lodges then don't go.

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