Season pass protection- hooray for Magic!

legalskier · Apr 16, 2020

In response to COVID-19 & uncertain economic times Magic is offering a full credit for future pass if the season is shut down prior to opening day for the 2020/21 season and partial credit if it has to close by next February. Passes are also reduced by 10% over last year's pricing to help financially, and they are offering a payment plan.
https://magicmtn.com/passes-cards/

"Magic Resets Northeast Season Pass Template in Response to COVID-19 Economic Fallout":
https://skiing.substack.com/p/magic-resets-northeast-season-pass
I do love me some Magic.

Epic & Ikon- not so much.
https://www.ikonpass.com/en/covid-19
https://thepointsguy.com/guide/coronavirus-ski-resorts/

This is quite a contrast. Will the current situation provide the little guys with an opportunity to claw back some market share? When will you be plunking down $$$ for a pass for next season, if at all? Will you be re-thinking Epic/Ikon? Will you instead wait through early 2020/21 season, instead buying a 2021/22 pass & start using it late next season after (hopefully) this pandemic passes?

BenedictGomez · Apr 16, 2020

It's a payment for service rendered, so doesn't IKON legally have to at least credit you 2021-2022 if the entire 2020-2021 season is cancelled?

It's a moot point anyway, but I'd be interested in hearing one of our resident lawyer's take on that.

legalskier · Apr 16, 2020

BenedictGomez said:
It's a payment for service rendered, so doesn't IKON legally have to at least credit you 2021-2022 if the entire 2020-2021 season is cancelled?

It's a moot point anyway, but I'd be interested in hearing one of our resident lawyer's take on that.

That's a fair way of looking at it, but it's governed by the contract entered into when the pass is purchased (unless there is a law that overrides the contract). Ikon's website says these are the terms of that portion of the contract:

Q: If I purchase a 20/21 Ikon pass and destinations do not open for winter 20/21, will I get a refund?
A:At this time, all Ikon Pass destinations plan to be open for the 20/21 winter season. All Ikon Pass, Ikon Base Pass, and Ikon Base Plus Pass purchases paid-in-full are non-refundable.

It says nothing about a credit and it then directs you to a link where you can purchase insurance from Ikon's "insurance partner."

https://www.ikonpass.com/en/covid-19

Zermatt · Apr 16, 2020

In bankruptcy the contract is void and a passholder is just a creditor....way behind the banks and other loan holders.

Magic is promising carrying over your pass to next season but if there is no 20/21 season Magic would go bankrupt and under no obligation to honor your pass. The courts would be in charge, not the current managers.

Not exactly the same but ask anybody who bought a lifetime pass at Killington in 1996 how that turned out.

JamaicaMan · Apr 16, 2020

billo said:
In bankruptcy the contract is void and a passholder is just a creditor....way behind the banks and other loan holders.

Magic is promising carrying over your pass to next season but if there is no 20/21 season Magic would go bankrupt and under no obligation to honor your pass. The courts would be in charge, not the current managers.

Not exactly the same but ask anybody who bought a lifetime pass at Killington in 1996 how that turned out.

Hmmmm. Magic will not go bankrupt even if all ski areas, in a worst case scenario, are closed all next season. We have capital and a strong investor group. We may be better positioned to handle a one season shutdown than some of the bigger players...

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Zermatt · Apr 16, 2020

JamaicaMan said:
Hmmmm. Magic will not go bankrupt even if all ski areas, in a worst case scenario, are closed all next season. We have capital and a strong investor group. We may be better positioned to handle a one season shutdown than some of the bigger players...

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I don't disagree with this at all, especially about larger resorts being more.prone to failure with lots of leverage.

Seems to be much ignorance here about what happens when a business fails though, it's not rosey and corporate promises mean nothing in court.

NYDB · Apr 17, 2020

It is much more likely that there is some sort of 'travel ban' or restriction for out of staters rather than a full shut down of ski areas, does magic have some sort of remedy for that scenario?

So basically locals can go ski, but out of staters must quarantine for 14 days after arrival, making weekend and or holiday trips impossible. Is there any remedy for that?

Just wondering. They already have my money anyway.

icecoast1 · Apr 17, 2020

NY DirtBag said:
It is much more likely that there is some sort of 'travel ban' or restriction for out of staters rather than a full shut down of ski areas, does magic have some sort of remedy for that scenario?

So basically locals can go ski, but out of staters must quarantine for 14 days after arrival, making weekend and or holiday trips impossible. Is there any remedy for that?

Just wondering. They already have my money anyway.

That scenario is also highly unlikely, about as unlikely as there not being any skiing next winter

cdskier · Apr 17, 2020

Ikon has responded with "Adventure Assurance". Essentially you can defer the value of your 20/21 pass to use towards a 21/22 pass for any reason.

Zermatt · Apr 17, 2020

icecoast1 said:
That scenario is also highly unlikely, about as unlikely as there not being any skiing next winter

Based on what, because it sucks or you have a crystal ball?

Vermont is very close to Phase I reopening....NY, CT and NJ are not. There is no VT ski season without those other states.

How do you balance that? How do you control full blown pandemic in NYC just a 3 hour drive from southern VT that is virtually free of CV? Not hoping and praying.

JamaicaMan · Apr 17, 2020

billo said:
Based on what, because it sucks or you have a crystal ball?

Vermont is very close to Phase I reopening....NY, CT and NJ are not. There is no VT ski season without those other states.

How do you balance that? How do you control full blown pandemic in NYC just a 3 hour drive from southern VT that is virtually free of CV? Not hoping and praying.

It’s all very much a challenge. The uncertainty. For skiing, the country has 6 months to get a much more workable solution for the virus. Near universal testing so people are identified for quarantine/stay-at-home if have corona; identify for anti-bodies that make some safe from virus reinfection (possibly), and keep away those most vulnerable/high risk. Develop a testing protocol that can be verified and checked by businesses on customers so risks are reduced for gathering. Developing effective therapeutics will be another key so the disease becomes more manageable/treatable prior to the longer-term (late 2021?) vaccine necessary for a return to normal. If not, it will be the wild, Wild West. The government must get its shit together.

On our side we will have to be nimble and provide a level of service based on how many will be able to be here and manage our expenses based on reduced visitations/restricted crowd-size and try to be breakeven as a business realistically/optimistically depending on the many scenarios. Lots of planning to do!

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icecoast1 · Apr 18, 2020

billo said:
Based on what, because it sucks or you have a crystal ball?

Vermont is very close to Phase I reopening....NY, CT and NJ are not. There is no VT ski season without those other states.

How do you balance that? How do you control full blown pandemic in NYC just a 3 hour drive from southern VT that is virtually free of CV? Not hoping and praying.

It's April. Ski season is 7 months away. Things change. And actually, if you follow the data in NY daily, things are starting to get better. The country is not going to still be in a full lockdown in 7 months

VTKilarney · Apr 18, 2020

icecoast1 said:
It's April. Ski season is 7 months away. Things change. And actually, if you follow the data in NY daily, things are starting to get better. The country is not going to still be in a full lockdown in 7 months

Things are starting to get better in New York because New York has been locked down. What do you think will happen once the lockdown ends - especially as the cold weather returns?

The easy decisions have been made. The hard decisions are coming up - because we can't lock down forever and this disease is not going away anytime soon.

Edd · Apr 18, 2020

VT/NH/ME have tricky decisions for sure. We’ve weathered the pandemic ok because of low population density, but our tourism economy needs Mass/NY/CT to come. If they do, we run the risk of becoming the next hot zones.

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gregnye · Apr 18, 2020

Edd said:
VT/NH/ME have tricky decisions for sure. We’ve weathered the pandemic ok because of low population density, but our tourism economy needs Mass/NY/CT to come. If they do, we run the risk of becoming the next hot zones.

Yeah it's times like this that I wish I didn't live in Massachusetts. There's certainly a benefit to having mountains, climbing and skiing right outside your front door. The good news about Mass though is if I do get sick, I know I have world class hospitals.

This pandemic has also forced me to seek out the lesser known/uncrowded parks, trails, etc. around my town to recreate in. I didn't know many existed--there's something to be said about exploring the places close to home rather than my usual approach of drive to NH because the nature is better.

Hopefully this test run of Working from Home can prove to employers that not everyone has to commute to a metro area to sit at a desk in a cubicle everyday and could work remote instead.

If I knew I could work remote permanently, I'd 100% consider New Hampshire, Vermont or other rural states to live. This may be the solution to that thread that keeps reappearing on this forum of Vermont having a lack of people moving there.

Season pass protection- hooray for Magic!

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