Vermont Likely to Close 3 State Colleges

thetrailboss · Apr 19, 2020

Zand said:
No professor in the VSC makes close to that. The longest tenured teachers in my hometown school district make more than the longest tenured professors in the VSC.

This isnt a professor salary problem. It's an overinflated administration with overinflated administrative salaries problem.

Top heavy
No direction or leadership
Not enough state funding for decades
Demographic changes fueled in part by 20-30 years of bad public policy decisions at the State level
Single-party rule with no checks and balances

Those are SOME of the reasons for how we got here.

BenedictGomez · Apr 19, 2020

Zand said:
No professor in the VSC makes close to that. This isnt a professor salary problem. It's an overinflated administration with overinflated administrative salaries problem.

My first comment in this thread noted my comments were irrespective of these two colleges.

Were I to focus on just these 2 colleges, I'd assume a large part of the problem is simply one of demand. And this type of school with an acceptance rate of 95% (2016) is likely part of the problem I'm speaking of, not part of the solution. I doubt the acceptance rate was 95% in 1970. While I can sympathize it's sad for old alums to see schools die off, and it's negative for various local economies, I believe it's necessary & ultimately a positive thing for America's higher education. We need fewer schools & more high quality schools, not more schools fueling the destructive, "everyone must go to college" falsehood.

dblskifanatic · Apr 19, 2020

deadheadskier said:
In 2002 I was hired as an adjunct professor to teach a Resort Marketing and Sales course at Davis and Elkins College in West Virginia.

I was paid $1500 for the semester plus mileage. Lol

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I worked in CA as an Adjunct Professor and got paid $3000 per class per quarter then moved to NE and tried doing the same and got paid $1500 per semester - taught one class then gave it up - was not worth it.

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JoeB-Z · Apr 20, 2020

Just a crazy contrast.

I was a teaching assistant for two sections of Engineering Communications my last semester at University of Michigan Law School in 2001. Get this- I got my tuition, a $3000 stipend and decent health insurance- About $28K in compensation for 100 hours of pleasant work over the semester. Why? Graduate Student Union

Domeskier · Apr 20, 2020

Professor salaries at the higher end of the pay scale are often funded through endowed chairs and should have no effect on tuition. If the Al Roker Professor of Meteorology is earning $500,000 per year, chances are that most of the money is coming from the endowment. Perhaps deep-pocketed donors should be earmarking their donations for tuition reduction and scholarships, but that is not nearly as cool as getting your name on a building or having your name associated with some pop physicist whom you watch on PBS.

Zermatt · Apr 20, 2020

Spoiler alert. This has nothing to do with Northeast skiing.

Also, all colleges and universities are utterly f$&@ed. Like many will just be gone. New enrollment is destroyed, current students are taking a year off. Harvard has $40b in endowmnet funds and thought taking a trivial amount of federal disaster loans was a good idea....just let them burn.

thetrailboss · Apr 20, 2020

Key point from the hearing today: The Chancellor conceded that he needs the same amount of money to keep the campuses open another year as he would if he goes ahead and closes immediately. He needs $25 million.

So seems like a no-brainer: get $25 million and KEEP them open. Restructure and move ahead.

VTKilarney · Apr 20, 2020

thetrailboss said:
Key point from the hearing today: The Chancellor conceded that he needs the same amount of money to keep the campuses open another year as he would if he goes ahead and closes immediately. He needs $25 million.

So seems like a no-brainer: get $25 million and KEEP them open. Restructure and move ahead.

The schools are losing money. Your math is off.

BenedictGomez · Apr 20, 2020

billo said:
Harvard has $40b in endowmnet funds and thought taking a trivial amount of federal disaster loans was a good idea....just let them burn.

I wanted to puke when I heard Harvard's getting COVID-19 funds. Literally the largest endowment on Planet Earth.

deadheadskier · Apr 20, 2020

The high profile Harvard grads really should be endlessly shaming the school. My understanding is Harvard could operate in perpetuity off their endowment without charging a dime for tuition.

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dblskifanatic · Apr 20, 2020

So what the point of amassing so much money? $40B? I would be curious how much COVID19 funding they get

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deadheadskier · Apr 20, 2020

Almost $9M

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2020/4/15/harvard-coronavirus-cares-act/

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thetrailboss · Apr 20, 2020

VTKilarney said:
The schools are losing money. Your math is off.

As I said, it’s not my math.

If you listened, this was Spaulding’s own admission. $25 million needed now be it close the schools now or keep them open a year. It was in the first hour or so of public comment. So if it’s wrong, that’s on him.

The point is he needs $25 mill regardless of whether they close now or after 20-21. So might as well try to either do a slow close or a careful restructure with more input.

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VTKilarney · Apr 21, 2020

Okay, let me explain it to you.

For your argument to make fiscal sense, after the upcoming academic year the colleges must not lose any money ever again. Since not a single person has come remotely close to cracking that code, it's not at all probable. And the demographics are forecasted to get much worse, especially in New England.

If the goal is to stem the bleeding, it makes a LOT of sense to close the colleges now even if it would cost the same amount of money to keep the colleges open for just one more year.

Think of it this way: I steal $100 from your checking account every month. I offer you a deal. You can pay a $100 ransom and I will never take another nickel from your checking account. If you don't pay me the ransom, I will keep taking the $100 every month. According to you, you shouldn't pay the ransom because next month you would have lost $100 anyway.

As I have said earlier, I am all for finding a way to keep these colleges open. But you need a better argument than the one you just made.

VTKilarney · Apr 21, 2020

Also, the capacity of the state to increase funding to the colleges is non-existent thanks to the impact of Covid-19 on the state coffers.

Any solution is going to have to be independent of state funds.

deadheadskier · Apr 21, 2020

uphillklimber said:
If the shutdown costs are 25 million, pay it and be done. To spend another 25 million this year, then pay the 25 million shutdown costs next year, you are simply kicking the can down the road. It's a money loser, time to close it down.

Maybe correct, maybe not.

Johnson has been around since 1828. Lyndon since 1911. Clearly they've had many, many years that they were solvent.

I'd be curious to know what their balance sheets looked like in recent years that they were solvent. What was the enrollment and revenue? What were the operating costs? How much money did the state contribute those years?

What I've read is the primary reduction in enrollment is due to a reduction in VT high school graduates. The school age population is shrinking, but the rate of people still going to college remains the same. Can NVU operations be scaled down to a point that it's solvent again? I think Jeb Spaulding needs to make a very clear and data driven argument that it can't be done. He owes that to the students, donors and the local communities who will suffer greatly from these closures.

If he has done this, I'd like to read the study. I've only seen the news pieces, which really don't provide enough information for people to have an informed opinion.

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VTKilarney · Apr 21, 2020

You act as if the college system has just woken up and realized that they need to fix the problem.

They have been trying for years. And look where it got them.

VTKilarney · Apr 21, 2020

I can spot one of the problems.

In 1994, in-state tuition at Lyndon was $3,168. Adjusted for inflation, in today's dollars that is $5,517.60.

In 2020, tuition is $11,592.

It's the same for out of state tuition. $7,320 in 1994. Adjusted for inflation that's $12,749. Actual tuition for 2020: $25,680

And yet the school is broke.

tumbler · Apr 21, 2020

Harvard giving the money back.

deadheadskier · Apr 21, 2020

VTKilarney said:
You act as if the college system has just woken up and realized that they need to fix the problem.

They have been trying for years. And look where it got them.

Yeah, not really.

I'm just asking for a data driven discussion. What has been done already? How many expenses (read positions) have been cut to try and balance their budget?

If it can't be done, so be it, but show the community why. That's all. Most people are just seeing news articles severely lacking in data.

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Vermont Likely to Close 3 State Colleges

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