Pico Will Not Operate 7 Days A Week

eastcoastpowderhound said:

Sorry, but according to some of your own logic regarding ownership of property at Pico, Powdr can't blame ASC for anything...they bought the mtn on their own initiative, ASC didn't force them to buy it, didn't pretend there were all sorts of new lodges and fantastic improvements all over the place...they knew exactly what they were getting themselves into right from the start...they have no one to blame but themselves...that may even be a quote from one of your earlier posts. :smile: Do I get to say caveat emptor again? ;-)

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No!

Fell right into my trap. You're right...nobody forced POWDR to buy anything. They bought it with eyes wide open. With all of its' flaws and problems. And they certainly must know about the image issues the resort had, the poor business decisions ASC made, the consequences of those decisions, and the negative PR their initial announcements have caused. Unless you think they are just plain stupid and then you can just kiss K goodbye right now.

So they must have a plan. There will be positive announcements in the future. Maybe you and others here won't like that plan and will go elsewhere, but then other skiers will come and take your place. There has to be a marketing plan beyond the initial negativity. I'd like to see that play out before I kill them just because it's fashionable to do so today.

In the end, we still don't really have a clue.

JimG. said:

So they must have a plan.

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I have my doubts....based on how most of their decisions so far seem to be based solely on cost. (Season length, laid-off employees...)

I'd like to see that play out before I kill them just because it's fashionable to do so today.

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True, but...their current decisions have the potential to cause major damage...and by the time those things play out, more permanent damage may be done to K and especially Pico.

There will be positive announcements in the future.

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That'd be nice....

In the end, we still don't really have a clue.

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I'd say we have a few clues, and so far, they aren't pointing toward a great future.

threecy said:

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A new HS 6 Pack next year would make this whole investment argument a moot point, that's how trivial and shortsighted this is.

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I'd rather see improvements than an HS 6 Pack.

millerm277 said:

I have my doubts

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You don't spend $85 million without a business plan (unless of course you're government).

They just need a string of a few positive announcements - then most of this will be swept under the rug in the minds of most of their skiers.

threecy said:

You don't spend $85 million without a business plan (unless of course you're government).

They just need a string of a few positive announcements - then most of this will be swept under the rug in the minds of most of their skiers.

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Normally you may be correct, but we are forgetting one very important thing here, SP. We don't know how the partnership between SP and Powdr is setup. Initial reports stated that SP spent $85 million, not Powdr. If that's the case, SP(a real estate company), will be calling the shots. Their biggest interest will be selling condos and townhouses not the mountain. The mountain is only important to them with regards to selling lodging. So, if they are the major investors, I have to imagine that all they care about is short term investing, investing to sell condos.

threecy said:

You don't spend $85 million without a business plan (unless of course you're government).
.

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Just because people are able to invest big $$'s doesn't always mean that they make the right decisions. "A plan", certainly. "A plan that will work", maybe.

threecy said:

Yes, especially for two separate destination resorts instead of one and its ugly step child

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Threecy

How many days have you spent at PICO? I have spent 15-20 days there each year for the past 4 years. In many ways you apparently will never understand it is a better mountain that killington. I am offended by your reference to PICO as an ugly stepchild. I don't think you know what you are talking about.

ASC completely ignored the place. They rarely ran the best expert lift or attempted to build a base on the best expert terrain. Despite the abuse of ASC, Pico remained an awesome place to ski. It's lack of crowds was more a factor of ASC's lack of attention and the ignorance of the general ski population due to the lack of marketing. I have no doubt the place is viable as a stand alone mountain if managed correctly. In fact, the atmosphere there has an element of the family friendly local cool of Mad River Glen. It is THE place that the Rutland local population considers it's "home" mountain... NOT killington. It's the place kids from the area learn to ski. It is a telemark mecca.

As for realestate prices there....the condos have doubled or tripled in the 6-7 years prior to the recent downturn. So I don't think anyone could argue that Pico realestate owners should have seen the writing on the wall. In fact, Pico condos have recently been priced higher for comparible size than most similar Killington condos due to the superior ski/ski out access offered by these units.

The travesty of the 5 day schedule is not the decision in isoloation. It's the idea that it communicates Powdr's view of the place. Pico is at a crossroads. It could be improved and marketed as a niche mountain. In my opinion there is a place for this in the market. People who hate Okemo, Mt. Snow, Killington and other very commercial ventures appreciate the "camp" atmosphere of a Mad River. In sure the same type of skiers attracted to Mad River can appreciate Pico if they become aware of it. The single base area and lower HSQ with all intermediate/beginner terrain are perfect for families, learners, and potentially even night skiing. It is the place I have identified as my best bet for learning to snowboard this year.

I have skied all of the major 16 mountains in VT many times and I think I have a good idea of what each mountain offers. Pico is unique. It is a skiers mountain. The problem is that maximizing profits per dollar invested will never lead to appropriate management of this type of place just as it would not suit Mad River. Perhaps it needs to be run as a co-op or a non-profit. Who knows??

Powdr has shown with it's decisions that it is big business looking to max profits with no desire to be a steward of the land for the purpose of creating a great skiing experience. This is a short term mentality that many of us recognize as a bad sign for Pico. It is probably ultimately bad for the industry from a consumers perspective.

If you don't believe me read this:

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31312&highlight=powdr uke:

Yawn... this company came in with gun's blarin'. If they think they can use their western business mentality out here they have another thing coming. We don't get 400 inches of snow a year, you have to earn your customers. They have burned so many bridges and pissed off so many people its almost funny.

Newpylong said:

Yawn... this company came in with gun's blarin'. If they think they can use their western business mentality out here they have another thing coming. We don't get 400 inches of snow a year, you have to earn your customers. They have burned so many bridges and pissed off so many people its almost funny.

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When you have to start trying to figure out who you haven't pissed off....you know you have a problem.

Only good news I've been able to get out of them so far is that Valley Plunge and some of the other overgrown trails are going to be cleared/trimmed. (Although, they said no to clearing The Judge, and Thunderball...)

SKIVT2 said:

I am offended by your reference to PICO as an ugly stepchild. I don't think you know what you are talking about.

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I hope you're not sincere in saying you're offended with my comments about a ski area. I don't see how you can disagree that Pico is treated like the ugly stepchild.

In my opinion, Pico has a lot more character than Killington. I haven't skied it much (but nonetheless I have, and I've hiked all over it), but I know enough about the terrain and facilities to make an informed judgement on it.

For the record, Killington is one of my least favorite ski areas to ski.

Its too bad because Pico is a better mountain many others in the East and its always taken the backseat to its bigger neighbor. I think the only savior is going to be the interconnect. Unfortunately, with that comes other problems. But, I think that's the only way its going to get the attention it deserves.

Miller, who told you they are going to chop that crap off of Valley Plunge? I will believe it when I see it! But good to hear anyway....

Newpylong said:

Miller, who told you they are going to chop that crap off of Valley Plunge? I will believe it when I see it!

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I asked Spin in a PM.

Unless you own rental property there, I don't see that very many people are impacted by Pico running on a 5 day per week schedule. Their projected opening and closing dates align with how it was run when ASC owned the place.

The biggest impact is to Pico-only season pass holders. During ASC ownership, they could use their passes at Killington when Pico was closed. When Killington offered a 6+ month season, that was a very good deal.

Geoff said:

The biggest impact is to Pico-only season pass holders. During ASC ownership, they could use their passes at Killington when Pico was closed. When Killington offered a 6+ month season, that was a very good deal.

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Can they still use their passes when Pico is closed? (Including those days?)

Newpylong said:

Yawn... this company came in with gun's blarin'. If they think they can use their western business mentality out here they have another thing coming. We don't get 400 inches of snow a year, you have to earn your customers. They have burned so many bridges and pissed off so many people its almost funny.

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Yeah, I was thinking just the other day how they're out of the west and wondering what they know about operating in the east. My concern; what do they know about snowmaking? They're more used to Mother Nature taking care of that for them.:roll:

threecy said:

I hope you're not sincere in saying you're offended with my comments about a ski area. I don't see how you can disagree that Pico is treated like the ugly stepchild.

In my opinion, Pico has a lot more character than Killington. I haven't skied it much (but nonetheless I have, and I've hiked all over it), but I know enough about the terrain and facilities to make an informed judgement on it.

For the record, Killington is one of my least favorite ski areas to ski.

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Sorry. I was sincere because I thought you meant that you felt it is an ugly step child rather than just being treated like one.

SKIVT2 said:

Sorry. I was sincere because I thought you meant that you felt it is an ugly step child rather than just being treated like one.

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It is...it doesn't have much going for it. Clean everything up and you have a nice ski area again.

threecy said:

It is...it doesn't have much going for it. Clean everything up and you have a nice ski area again.

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WHATEVER!?!?!?!! :roll: Now you are just just being a troll.

SKIVT2 said:

WHATEVER!?!?!?!! :roll: Now you are just just being a troll.

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I don't know how you can call it trolling...take Pico, give it independent ownership, and place it maybe 10-15 miles further away from Killington, and you have a whole different ballgame.

I can only imagine how awsome the powder would be if a storm rolled in and snowed monday to wendsday. On thursday can you say bottomless deep?