Killington: 2008-09 Scorecard

Greg · Nov 3, 2008

jerryg said:
Tongue-in-cheek is great, but not when you have the company logo on. I'll give him all the free passes I can think of, but it's not me that comes on here as a first time reader, finds out he's the Killington Rep and gets a bad impression of the resort because they can't tell the tone of his posts. I'm sure he does a heck of a job and I certainly harbor no ill will, but when I read the paper yesterday and he was misquoted as saying that Killington would be the first resort the the eastern United States to open - after I had just skied three days at another eastern resort - I didn't hear him bragging about beating out Someday Bigger. Yes, there are two points here and I apologize if I am being too critical of Tom.

jerryg said:
So Nick says that the over-priced lift ticket is too much... hence "ouch" and Tom lies to the AP about being the first resort to open in the east...!

Like you said, two different points entirely. Your initial criticism was that Tom was "making fun" of Sunday River. Well, Nick commented that Killington's price point was too high. One could argue the "ouch" part was a mocking tone, as much as you might think the "Sumday Bigger" comment was poking fun at Sunday River. Personally, I feel both comments were made in jest, and quite frankly this spirited competition is good for the industry overall. Let's lighten up.

jerryg · Nov 3, 2008

Greg said:
Like you said, two different points entirely. Your initial criticism was that Tom was "making fun" of Sunday River. Well, Nick commented that Killington's price point was too high. One could argue the "ouch" part was a mocking tone, as much as you might think the "Sumday Bigger" comment was poking fun at Sunday River. Personally, I feel both comments were made in jest, and quite frankly this spirited competition is good for the industry overall. Let's lighten up.

I totally agree. I'm just having some fun. Besides, Nick is organizing a bunch of folks with backhoes to begin the vertical expansion soon. They're going to build a resevoir for the Androscoggin River to flow into for hydro power and with the earth they dig up, they'll pile it on Jordan and SR will get vert and snowfields!

It's not gonna be lift-served for a few years though! :flag:

campgottagopee · Nov 3, 2008

Greg said:
Like you said, two different points entirely. Your initial criticism was that Tom was "making fun" of Sunday River. Well, Nick commented that Killington's price point was too high. One could argue the "ouch" part was a mocking tone, as much as you might think the "Sumday Bigger" comment was poking fun at Sunday River. Personally, I feel both comments were made in jest, and quite frankly this spirited competition is good for the industry overall. Let's lighten up.

Compettion does breed good biz, but, imo, neither part involved should throw stones in such a public place so as to not start this kind of banter.

Geoff · Nov 3, 2008

Greg said:
Sorry the "scorecard" nomenclature doesn't meet your approval. I get the impression you're not easy to please...

You want a flame war? You got it.

I have high standards. You don't seem to meet them.

Greg · Nov 3, 2008

Geoff said:
I have high standards. You don't seem to meet them.

Trust me. I'm fine with that.

riverc0il · Nov 3, 2008

highpeaksdrifter said:
I’ll tell ya, I’m not one for fake outrage or am I particularly eager to agree with Grill Cheese Samich, but I think it is kinda unprofessional too. If I was his employer I wouldn't want him taking cheapish shots at the competition on a public forum.

I don't really care though.

I concur. Tongue in cheek or not, it was an unprofessional cheap shot. There are ways to say "we are better than the other company" or "our product is superior" without name calling. I give this one a pass on the scorecard though along with the $65 tickets. Hey, Killington was the first to open with top to bottom skiing in New England and really stepped it up from last year. They can be a little cocky. Now they gotta step it up these next few weeks following the warm spell too

riverc0il · Nov 3, 2008

JerseyJoey said:
How is he lying? Killington is the first resort in the east to open for the season. How is that a lie?

It is certainly premature since that essentially constitutes a guarantee that Killington won't shut down again until the last day of the season.....

deadheadskier · Nov 3, 2008

JerseyJoey said:
I will say this as far as the Sumday Bigger/ Sunday River thing goes. It's really not fair to call SR Sumday Bigger unless they plan on adding vertical to the mountain. It will always be a small mountain. It will never be "Bigger", not even "Someday".

Killington isn't exactly an area that can poke fun at other areas for their verticle drop. Both mountains suffer in that category with most trail pods offering more in the neighborhood of 1500 vert. Killington's claim of 3050 vert is every bit as big of a joke as SR claiming 2300.

WJenness · Nov 3, 2008

riverc0il said:
<snip>Hey, Killington was the first to open with top to bottom skiing in New England</snip>

Were they? SR had top to bottom via T2, Sunday Punch and Lower Sunday punch on Sunday. They both seemed to open at 9AM on Sunday, so I don't understand how one can say they beat the other in that category.

-w

Geoff · Nov 3, 2008

deadheadskier said:
Killington isn't exactly an area that can poke fun at other areas for their verticle drop. Both mountains suffer in that category with most trail pods offering more in the neighborhood of 1500 vert. Killington's claim of 3050 vert is every bit as big of a joke as SR claiming 2300.

At KMart, it's usually more like 1000' of sustained vertical. It always sucks when I go to a big mountain like Whistler. My quads just can't stand up to Peak to Creek.

The big advantage at Sunday River is the amount of intermediate terrain. Killington offers novice terrain and advanced terrain. They're really short on Blue Square acreage and it gets the snot pounded out of it from the traffic. Sunday River is also a little farther north and somewhat less prone to thaws.

Killington is in the 250" natural snowfall belt. It has ungroomed natural snow trails and fairly reliable tree skiing. It's much less family-friendly and has always been pricey if you're skiing on a day ticket.

riverc0il · Nov 3, 2008

WJenness said:
Were they? SR had top to bottom via T2, Sunday Punch and Lower Sunday punch on Sunday. They both seemed to open at 9AM on Sunday, so I don't understand how one can say they beat the other in that category.

-w

I was not aware they got the lower sections of those trails open for Sunday. Then again, that does call into question the definition of "top to bottom" :lol: Then again, K1 isn't exactly Killington's lowest elevation point.

But Killington did "open" top to bottom whereas Sunday River did a "soft opening" and on the opening only opened from the mid-station.

Lots of ways to slice these types of things semantically. :roll:

Regardless, K deserves props.

GrilledSteezeSandwich · Nov 3, 2008

deadheadskier said:
Killington isn't exactly an area that can poke fun at other areas for their verticle drop. Both mountains suffer in that category with most trail pods offering more in the neighborhood of 1500 vert. Killington's claim of 3050 vert is every bit as big of a joke as SR claiming 2300.

For sure..Stowe is where it's at for legit vert..but..they aren't open..

highpeaksdrifter · Nov 3, 2008

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:
For sure..Stowe is where it's at for legit vert..but..they aren't open..

Come on dude, keep it real. I know you love Stowe and hate Whiteface, but if you've been to WF you know we have 3,200 feet of legit vert right off the summit chair. No poling, no skating, no crescrossing, u skiing from top to bottom.

I'm not sayin everybody does it all the time, but it's there for who wants it.

GrilledSteezeSandwich · Nov 3, 2008

highpeaksdrifter said:
Come on dude, keep it real. I know you love Stowe and hate Whiteface, but if you've been to WF you know we have 3,200 feet of legit vert right off the summit chair. No poling, no skating, no crescrossing, u skiing from top to bottom.

I'm not sayin everybody does it all the time, but it's there for who wants it.

You always have to bring Whiteface into it..Whiteface isn't even in New England..it's in the Mid Atlantic..:lol::lol::lol:

highpeaksdrifter · Nov 3, 2008

GrilledSteezeSandwich said:
You always have to bring Whiteface into it..Whiteface isn't even in New England..it's in the Mid Atlantic..:lol::lol::lol:

In the post I quoted you, you brought in Stowe. You have a point the thread isn't about WF, but its not about Stowe either.

GrilledSteezeSandwich · Nov 3, 2008

highpeaksdrifter said:
In the post I quoted you, you brought in Stowe. You have a point the thread isn't about WF, but its not about Stowe either.

If only they built a lift between Stowe and Whiteface..

Greg · Apr 9, 2009

Time to bump this one again, I think.

Obviously, the feedback on the BMMC was pretty disappointing, at least from the party standpoint. However, it looks like they are really making an effort to [post="412837"]close out the season[/post] in style. K1 and Superstar quad in May will be a nice treat. Does anyone think that was in response to the BMMC debacle?

Anyway, give your thoughts on the season overall.

Highway Star · Apr 9, 2009

Greg said:
Time to bump this one again, I think.

Obviously, the feedback on the BMMC was pretty disappointing, at least from the party standpoint. However, it looks like they are really making an effort to [post="412837"]close out the season[/post] in style. K1 and Superstar quad in May will be a nice treat. Does anyone think that was in response to the BMMC debacle?

Right now they are in a 'post-BMMC-failure-Killington-hate-pit' with their PR, and are trying to dig themselves out for the sake of next year's season pass sales........early deadline being April 30th. Not to mention day visits....considering how many other areas are closing, they are setting themselves up for a strong end of April.

I'm a little curious how they stand with this year's operating profit plus the pass sales. Either they are particularly weak at the moment, so they are looking for cash from the early pass sales to get them going for summer operations and minor improvements and capital upgrades...........OR, they are doing pretty well right now, and are waiting to get the final total of early pass sales before they make the final decision on improvements for this year....be they lift changes, snowmaking upgrades, trails changes, etc.

icedtea · Apr 9, 2009

Now that the email from Chris Nyberg aka CHRRISSSIE attempting to get a customer fired for legitimate complaints regarding the resort, POWDR = FAIL!!

The PRESIDENT of Killington once again tried to get a customer fired for merely sending a complaint!!!

WHAT A DIRTY RAT! For you Italians out there...facha brute!!!

IT HAS BEEN VERIFIED!

thetrailboss · Apr 9, 2009

I'm still hearing a lot of bad things. It seems as if they came in last year and really focused on cutting out the crap and trying to "right the ship." In doing so, they pissed a lot of people off. I think this season they have been trying to make amends, but they still have lots of critics.

Sounds like there is a lot of frustration up there. As was the case with Sugarbush, when ASC left town, the new owners found a lot of problems that needed to be dealt with. I've heard that there was a lot of problems with staffing and morale. No easy fixes there.

As to expansion plans, I think we know that there will be none with this economy. In an interview with VPR, Tom Horrocks acknowledged that this latter half of the season has not been so good, with only 18 inches of new snow in March. He said that they expect to be behind last season's numbers by about 1%. Not good news.

Killington: 2008-09 Scorecard

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