The "Sugarbush Thread"

So are the lift rides free and open to the public?

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They are open to the public but they are not free unless you are already a SB season pass holder. For anyone over 7 yrs old who is not a pass holder, the charge is $10.

madskier6 said:

So are the lift rides free and open to the public?

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They are open to the public but they are not free unless you are already a SB season pass holder. For anyone over 7 yrs old who is not a pass holder, the charge is $10.

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Clarifier- that is SB pass holder for upcoming 05/06 season.

You think they'd do anything if they saw, oh I don't know, lopper handles sticking out of my backpack when I get on the chair?

Tin Woodsman said:

You think they'd do anything if they saw, oh I don't know, lopper handles sticking out of my backpack when I get on the chair?

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I dunno...charge you more money or something bizarre :lol:

You think they'd do anything if they saw, oh I don't know, lopper handles sticking out of my backpack when I get on the chair?

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Well... Who do you think will be running those lifts?

I would think the worst would be that they would ask where you were going. :lol:

And by the way, you should see the work they've done on the "official" woods trails. I've seen Lew's, Eden, and Deeper Sleeper. They have cleared a very clear line on each. I'll post a pic of the bottom of Lew's soon. It made me say "Wow!"

Dumb question, Lo, but...

Lostone said:

And by the way, you should see the work they've done on the "official" woods trails. I've seen Lew's, Eden, and Deeper Sleeper. They have cleared a very clear line on each. I'll post a pic of the bottom of Lew's soon. It made me say "Wow!"

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But in the quote above did you mean line......or lines ?

Lostone said:

You think they'd do anything if they saw, oh I don't know, lopper handles sticking out of my backpack when I get on the chair?

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Well... Who do you think will be running those lifts?

I would think the worst would be that they would ask where you were going. :lol:

And by the way, you should see the work they've done on the "official" woods trails. I've seen Lew's, Eden, and Deeper Sleeper. They have cleared a very clear line on each. I'll post a pic of the bottom of Lew's soon. It made me say "Wow!"

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I saw that when I was up on the mtn a few weekends back just poking around. :wink: They've cleared out Lew's Line very aggressively down to the Heaven's Gate traverse. Fine by me.

But in the quote above did you mean line......or lines ?

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What I saw in Lew's and Deeper, was one very clear line. Saw the same thing coming out of Eden, but never thought to check earlier in my travels for other exits. I had looked in, earlier and thought that they'd done a lot of clearing further up. That looked like more than a line.

Not sure that was such a good idea. If there ain't enough snow to cover most of that stuff, you probably shouldn't be in there anyway. And that stuff is good for erosion deterrence and feeds many creatures during the non-snow time.

Brings up the whole woods ecology....

Lostone said:

But in the quote above did you mean line......or lines ?

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What I saw in Lew's and Deeper, was one very clear line. Saw the same thing coming out of Eden, but never thought to check earlier in my travels for other exits. I had looked in, earlier and thought that they'd done a lot of clearing further up. That looked like more than a line.

Not sure that was such a good idea. If there ain't enough snow to cover most of that stuff, you probably shouldn't be in there anyway. And that stuff is good for erosion deterrence and feeds many creatures during the non-snow time.

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....aspect of tree skiing. I'm not sure where I read it, maybe a thread here, about how "clearcutting" of tree lines can eventually lead to a weakened state of the trees left standing. Some suggestion of Jay's potential for problems down the line regarding this. Hmmm....any Paul Bunyan's out there know about this ? Mad River Glen has marked little tree pockets and planted for regrowth after tree loss from storms due to this effect, I believe.

Keep up the good work, Lo, and more pics, please. The Golf Course must be getting pretty right about now. Nothing like beautiful fall foliage while you search for your ball in the woods.

Re: Brings up the whole woods ecology....

smootharc said:

Lostone said:

But in the quote above did you mean line......or lines ?

Click to expand...

What I saw in Lew's and Deeper, was one very clear line. Saw the same thing coming out of Eden, but never thought to check earlier in my travels for other exits. I had looked in, earlier and thought that they'd done a lot of clearing further up. That looked like more than a line.

Not sure that was such a good idea. If there ain't enough snow to cover most of that stuff, you probably shouldn't be in there anyway. And that stuff is good for erosion deterrence and feeds many creatures during the non-snow time.

Click to expand...

....aspect of tree skiing. I'm not sure where I read it, maybe a thread here, about how "clearcutting" of tree lines can eventually lead to a weakened state of the trees left standing. Some suggestion of Jay's potential for problems down the line regarding this. Hmmm....any Paul Bunyan's out there know about this ? Mad River Glen has marked little tree pockets and planted for regrowth after tree loss from storms due to this effect, I believe.

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Definitely something to that. It's not the initial "clearcutting" that's the problem (from what I've read - I'm no forestry major), it's the subsequent maintenance of those lines. If you cut all of the younger trees to create a line, leaving only mature ones, you will have a problem 20-30 years on when those already mature trees begin to die out and there is nothing to replace them. This is why places like Paradise and Lower Glade at MRG and Paradise Woods at SB (skier's left) are MUCH more open than they used to be or should be. Thankfully, Jay Appleton and like minded individuals are bringing some science and sanity to the process by creating regen zones, at least at MRG. I'd love to see the same for parts of SB that need work (Paradise Woods and Lower Moonshine come immediately to mind, and Sleeper and Lower Domino used to be more gladed - let's not talk about Murphy's Tree).

But I digress... The key thing for sound forestry mgmt when cutting lines is to leave younger trees intact near older ones, so that there is something to replace the older ones when they die. It also helps to have some even younger trees surrounding those replacements as a buffer or barrier to the harmful effects of skier edges slicing the vegetation in the winter. I'm fine with what SB has done in this instance b/c it will hopefully draw more traffic to the clearly marked glades. OTOH, I hope they have a plan to ensure that these glades remain healthy well into the future.

Soon...

Re: Brings up the whole woods ecology....

Tin Woodsman said:

Definitely something to that. It's not the initial "clearcutting" that's the problem (from what I've read - I'm no forestry major), it's the subsequent maintenance of those lines. If you cut all of the younger trees to create a line, leaving only mature ones, you will have a problem 20-30 years on when those already mature trees begin to die out and there is nothing to replace them. This is why places like Paradise and Lower Glade at MRG and Paradise Woods at SB (skier's left) are MUCH more open than they used to be or should be. Thankfully, Jay Appleton and like minded individuals are bringing some science and sanity to the process by creating regen zones, at least at MRG. I'd love to see the same for parts of SB that need work (Paradise Woods and Lower Moonshine come immediately to mind, and Sleeper and Lower Domino used to be more gladed - let's not talk about Murphy's Tree).

But I digress... The key thing for sound forestry mgmt when cutting lines is to leave younger trees intact near older ones, so that there is something to replace the older ones when they die. It also helps to have some even younger trees surrounding those replacements as a buffer or barrier to the harmful effects of skier edges slicing the vegetation in the winter. I'm fine with what SB has done in this instance b/c it will hopefully draw more traffic to the clearly marked glades. OTOH, I hope they have a plan to ensure that these glades remain healthy well into the future.

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Sounds logical....and like the areas themselves should have some kind of plan with regard to these issues.

Now about those "not so clearly" marked glades......

Re: Brings up the whole woods ecology....

smootharc said:

Sounds logical....and like the areas themselves should have some kind of plan with regard to these issues.

Now about those "not so clearly" marked glades......

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Say what? There are no such glades at SB. None whatsoever. Well except for the Church, and everyone knows about that.

Re: Brings up the whole woods ecology....

Tin Woodsman said:

- let's not talk about Murphy's Tree).

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Come-on Tin, there are at least 3 trees in Murphy Glades. :lol:

What I saw on Lew's didn't bother me. It was one line and I have no worries about it recovering, with all the growth around it. But when I looked in on Eden, I thought it looked quite clear. Hopefully, I was just in the cleared area.

What started me worrying was Paradise woods. Every time I see it, I can't believe how much it has been torn up.

And as for Murphy's, I think it was the year before last that I counted the trees. I posted the total on the RSN forum, but don't remember the count. I think it was 37.

People were telling me I needed to get a life. :blink:

Can you imagine that? :blink: Either them telling me, or me actually getting a life? :lol:

Lostone said:

What started me worrying was Paradise woods. Every time I see it, I can't believe how much it has been torn up.

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Interesting you should happen to mention this! I was just talking about glades with one of my friends at VLS and he was mentioning how older glades are not good and are more wide open because of the fact that back then the idea was to cut out the younger growth and leave only old growth...turns out that you're left with nothing once that old growth dies out and falls. He even referred to the 'woods he'd seen at Sugarbush' :idea: No joke. This explains what is happening...

I also recall reading the GMNF/NFS Impact studies from 1994 or 1996 and they mentioned how there was actually an avalanche/mudslide in that vacinity which had wiped out a serious number of trees/terrain.

All of this talk concerning clearing old growth as opposed to new growth is very pertinent information.

I haven't 'pruned' in a number of years, but when I did while younger - it was always directed at the new growth / 'scrub brush'. Mainly because it was easy to address and yielded immediate results for the following winter when I went back to ski that terrain.

Now let's look at the great ice storm of 98'. When it happened so many people were upset (myself included) saying that the glades would be ruined for a decade or more. What happened? The ice coated everything, but for the most part only large, old, bitter trees broke and immediately clogged the stashes that we loved and rendered them unskiable for the rest of the winter and most of the following season - in my case those lines were at Stowe. At the same time all the 'scrub brush' survived the ice. Because these were young and pliable they were able to bounce back from the weight without snapping.

By 2000 the woods were better than I've ever seen and this was mostly true because the 98 ice storm brought down all of the old and decrepid trees. Things were more open and have been ever since.

In terms of forest management - balance is very important. Clearing everything out and only leaving the 'old growth' is not a sustainable concept for long term forest health and most importantly SKIING health.

The ice storm of 98 serves up the proof

So this is where everyone went!

Quite the place you have here!

I was getting tired of seeing the sun still out on the RSN Sugarbush forum. :roll:

Have no idea how I ended up at the Vermont forum... 1 forum for each state? :-? Yeah... That'll work! :roll:

Guess I've got some reading to do here.

Anyone up there know if it is snowing yet? 8)

Forest management and community weekend

Nice to see all this feed back on editing in the woods. This coming weekend is Home owners or now called community weekend. Where Sugarbush managment puts on their dog and pony show. It is also a great time to rub elbows with the owners and staff.

I've been suggesting for years that it is time to start some regeneration zones at Sugarbush.....Paridice's ball field stands out, as does Murphy's Glades. If you agree let them know. Also there was roomor that there maybe an opertunity in the future for Sugarbush enthuisist to help trim. Ask John Egan about it.

See you Saturday.

Re: So this is where everyone went!

Xcreamus said:

Quite the place you have here!

I was getting tired of seeing the sun still out on the RSN Sugarbush forum. :roll:

Have no idea how I ended up at the Vermont forum... 1 forum for each state? :-? Yeah... That'll work! :roll:

Guess I've got some reading to do here.

Anyone up there know if it is snowing yet? 8)

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Welcome to the thread and to AZ! Glad to have you here!

As for this weekend, man what a bad weather weekend for the Community Day. Those chairlift rides on Sat are going to really suck :roll: