The "Sugarbush Thread"

[thetrailboss]

The only affordable stuff are one bedroom condos, unless you are moving from out of state, because cost of living in VT isn't proportionate(sp?) to income. So, because of this I am forced to rent.. yippee... ugh..

dave

Yes, this is true. The idea was to tax the rich land owners, but what is happening is that the folks who are native and own their houses/land are being over taxed.

[ctenidae]

I was on the Bubble Bandwagon for a while, becasue it sure looked like one, but the fundamentals are supporting more of a solid, permanent change. The boys over at Bridgewater (who know a thing or two about things) are saying that soon the US will be where Europe was 20 years ago, with 45% of income going to housing, and married couples living with their parents for many years before buying their own home. It's at 20% now, so that leaves a lot of room for price expansion.

Of course, that has nothing to do with Sugarbush, so I'll leave it at that.

[Tin Woodsman]

House prices - real estate is currently selling at a multiple to rents that is higher than seen in US history. Houses are increasingly unaffordable as a % of income all across the country, and especially on the coasts. Whomever told you that we're going to morph to the European model sounds like a snake oil salesman to me. This is a lovely bubble we are in now, and people are going to get hurt badly before too long.

[Strat]

So we have a sugarbush thread... now what do we do?

Here's a thought-provoker: 2 foot dump last night, let's say it's midseason so you're fully in shape and everything. You hurry up to Sugarbush (North or South, your pick) to get first chair. Which trail/glade do you hit first? Keep it on-map, makes it a bit more challenging...

Me, I say Paradise. No, I've never ridden it, but I've only heard great things, especially on pow days.

[Tin Woodsman]

Also, I'm kind of bummed that I missed the opportunity to ask questions in this thread, b/c SB is my home mountain. That's what I get for not looking at AZ for a few days. What the heck - I'll throw some out anyway and see if JJ can get to them.

1) I've seen plans to replace the Valley House double with a high speed quad while extending the base terminal downhill to where the rental shop has been. Clearly the goal is to increase the out of base lift capacity so that the Super Bravo and Gate House quads aren't overwhelmed as they usually are on busy weekend/holiday mornings. But this plan concerns me for two reasons. First, the current intersection with the Valley House traverse and the top terminal of the VH lift is a disaster. The traverse gets scraped down to bare ice by 10:30AM and I see multiple collisions and near misses every day I'm there. Aren't you concerned that a quad would exacerbate this problem? Second, the trails in that pod are already quite heavily used, especially Spring Fling and Snowball/Racers Edge. Why would you want to double lift capacity for a pod with two crowded snowmaking trails, and four expert/upper intermediate natural trails that can't handle many more skiers as it is? Throw in the fact that half of Spring Fling is often closed and you really are setting yourselves up for a diminution of the skiing experience. Lift lines are, by and large, not a big problem at SB. Why go for the sexy marketing coup at the expense of the skiing experience?

2) Has anyone considered cutting a traverse from the top of Middle Earth down to the base of the North Lynx triple? Such a trail would have multiple benefits for SB. First, it would help overcome the current single point of failure which exists in accessing the North Lynx and Slide Brook chairs. If Gate House goes down, there's no way to get theah from heah. While a traverse from Castlerock wouldn't be optimal, it would at least be the start of a solution there. Furthermore, when one wants to go from the Castlerock/Heaven's Gate trail pods to North Lynx or back to Mt Ellen, they must go through the already-crowded base area and queue for the Gate House lift with the beginners who would probably appreciate shorter lift lines.

3) Any plans to expand Allyn's Lodge? That place gets crowded, especially on colder days. Not only can you not find a seat on those days, the line for food becomes intolerably long. You really should do something more with that fantastic building.

4) Any chance for a warming hut at the confluence of Gate House, North Lnyx, and SBX? Again, it's about keeping people out of the base area during the day and maximizing the use of Gate House for beginners who are the key to your future.

[awf170]

So we have a sugarbush thread... now what do we do?

Here's a thought-provoker: 2 foot dump last night, let's say it's midseason so you're fully in shape and everything. You hurry up to Sugarbush (North or South, your pick) to get first chair. Which trail/glade do you hit first? Keep it on-map, makes it a bit more challenging...

Me, I say Paradise. No, I've never ridden it, but I've only heard great things, especially on pow days.

the unmarked glades of paradise or the the trail paradise

[Strat]

Also, I'm kind of bummed that I missed the opportunity to ask questions in this thread, b/c SB is my home mountain. That's what I get for not looking at AZ for a few days. What the heck - I'll throw some out anyway and see if JJ can get to them.

1) I've seen plans to replace the Valley House double with a high speed quad while extending the base terminal downhill to where the rental shop has been. Clearly the goal is to increase the out of base lift capacity so that the Super Bravo and Gate House quads aren't overwhelmed as they usually are on busy weekend/holiday mornings. But this plan concerns me for two reasons. First, the current intersection with the Valley House traverse and the top terminal of the VH lift is a disaster. The traverse gets scraped down to bare ice by 10:30AM and I see multiple collisions and near misses every day I'm there. Aren't you concerned that a quad would exacerbate this problem? Second, the trails in that pod are already quite heavily used, especially Spring Fling and Snowball/Racers Edge. Why would you want to double lift capacity for a pod with two crowded snowmaking trails, and four expert/upper intermediate natural trails that can't handle many more skiers as it is? Throw in the fact that half of Spring Fling is often closed and you really are setting yourselves up for a diminution of the skiing experience. Lift lines are, by and large, not a big problem at SB. Why go for the sexy marketing coup at the expense of the skiing experience?

2) Has anyone considered cutting a traverse from the top of Middle Earth down to the base of the North Lynx triple? Such a trail would have multiple benefits for SB. First, it would help overcome the current single point of failure which exists in accessing the North Lynx and Slide Brook chairs. If Gate House goes down, there's no way to get theah from heah. While a traverse from Castlerock wouldn't be optimal, it would at least be the start of a solution there. Furthermore, when one wants to go from the Castlerock/Heaven's Gate trail pods to North Lynx or back to Mt Ellen, they must go through the already-crowded base area and queue for the Gate House lift with the beginners who would probably appreciate shorter lift lines.

3) Any plans to expand Allyn's Lodge? That place gets crowded, especially on colder days. Not only can you not find a seat on those days, the line for food becomes intolerably long. You really should do something more with that fantastic building.

4) Any chance for a warming hut at the confluence of Gate House, North Lnyx, and SBX? Again, it's about keeping people out of the base area during the day and maximizing the use of Gate House for beginners who are the key to your future.

Good questions Tin, though I'm not sure he'll get to them - hopefully, like many AZ Challenge responders, he'll come on here after... a few thoughts of my own:

1) In my opinion, having a more accessible lift going to that part of the mountain will in my opinion cut down on much of the traffic on the Valley House Traverse, and thus, at least partially solve the ice and traffic problems up there now. Those who want a quick ride to Stein's/Snowball/Eden/what have you are now going to have an easy, fast option to get to those trails, instead of the pain in the @$$ shlep that it is right now to get there. They won't even need to traverse over from bravo. Those who want to access trails on the bravo side will just ride bravo. Because of this, I think that actually will help the problems of the intersection at the top of the current VH, by splitting the traffic to different sides of the mountain. Valley House Traverse will become much less used, though I think that Reverse Traverse will see more use, by people who didn't want to wait in the Bravo lines who still want to get over to that side and access Heaven's Gate/Castlerock. However, seeing as the VHQ will get less traffic than Bravo, and thus, shorter lines pretty much all the time, it seems unlikely that the same principle would work in reverse, that is, people doing the current option of taking Bravo and traversing over. In regards to overloading trail capacity on that side of the mountain: yes, that could be an issue, but I just don't see people flocking to that side of the mountain just because it's easy - it's just as easy to go up Super Bravo, which accesses much more terrain. I think that there will really be the same amount of people coming to the Valley House side of the mountain as there are now, they'll just be able to get there a little easier, and without the traffic problems that currently plague the top of the Valley House. So I think an HSQ for the Valley House is actually a good idea: the problem with congestion at the top of the lift is solved, and people have an easier and more enjoyable time getting there - I just don't see the name as applicable anymore, seeing as there will no longer be a Valley House.

2) Just pointing out that a trail from the top of Middle Earth to the North Lynx base would be far from a traverse - that would be quite steep in places. However, a much shorter, flatter option would be parallel to the upper portion of Castlerock Connection, just a bit above it; a small bridge would probably be required, as it would cross a stream. Such a trail would involve funneling more people through Castlerock though, where many people don't want to be, and would only solve the problem of only one way existing to Slide Brook/North Lynx for Castlerock skiers.

3) I agree, Allyn's Lodge could definitely use expansion, though that might require knocking down a portion of it; unfortunately, that's kinda on the back burner at the moment, seeing as what they're busy with now...

4) I agree about the warming hut too - put that giant trail map and tables inside there, give people a place to chill (er, warm up). Even a yurt would probably suffice. That seems like a much easier point to address than Allyn's.

[awf170]

is that you strat


i need a snazzy new avatar

[awf170]

So we have a sugarbush thread... now what do we do?

Here's a thought-provoker: 2 foot dump last night, let's say it's midseason so you're fully in shape and everything. You hurry up to Sugarbush (North or South, your pick) to get first chair. Which trail/glade do you hit first? Keep it on-map, makes it a bit more challenging...

Me, I say Paradise. No, I've never ridden it, but I've only heard great things, especially on pow days.

the unmarked glades of paradise or the the trail paradise

ohhh i see, you saw on map so your talking about the trail, oh ya it is sick... didnt seem to get any pics of it.

[Strat]

is that you strat


i need a snazzy new avatar

Hah, wish that was me... :P

Not exactly digging your kitty there, but to each his own, haha...