The "Sugarbush Thread"

Hawk · Nov 9, 2020

The bus will have a capacity of 15 people and that is the large bus. Win was saying that if you want to ski slidebrook you had better plan to skin or get picked up. If the Bus is at capacity it will not even stop. Also that is a road with a house on it and it can not be blocked so parking is very limited.

HowieT2 · Nov 9, 2020

Hawk said:
The bus will have a capacity of 15 people and that is the large bus. Win was saying that if you want to ski slidebrook you had better plan to skin or get picked up. If the Bus is at capacity it will not even stop. Also that is a road with a house on it and it can not be blocked so parking is very limited.

and thats why I have a wife and a pickup truck

Hawk · Nov 9, 2020

HowieT2 said:
and thats why I have a wife and a pickup truck

my new best friend! ;-)

HowieT2 · Nov 9, 2020

Hawk said:
my new best friend! ;-)

my wife or the pickup? because if its the former you can have her, the pickup, not so much

pinnoke · Nov 10, 2020

Today's the last day of our beautiful summer weather here in VT. After Wednesday's showers, temps fall to a more seasonal normal range, with nighttime numbers rather marginal for SB's best snowmaking conditions. Perhaps some good 'base-building' production down low. Might Mt. Ops consider opening the top half of the mountain (with downloading Bravo) as in days of yore? I doubt it. So, looking ahead, extended forecast appears to support decent opportunity. Remaining cautiously optimistic for green lights to get our season started ASAP!

Slidebrook87 · Nov 10, 2020

pinnoke said:
Today's the last day of our beautiful summer weather here in VT. After Wednesday's showers, temps fall to a more seasonal normal range, with nighttime numbers rather marginal for SB's best snowmaking conditions. Perhaps some good 'base-building' production down low. Might Mt. Ops consider opening the top half of the mountain (with downloading Bravo) as in days of yore? I doubt it. So, looking ahead, extended forecast appears to support decent opportunity. Remaining cautiously optimistic for green lights to get our season started ASAP!

Originally the forecast predicted warmer nighttime temps, but it just changed and it looks like there's a consistent pattern of cold starting on the 14th. Hopefully it's cold enough and they have enough time to get open on the 21st.

tumbler · Nov 10, 2020

After seeing Solitude (Alterra) postpone their opening date indefinitely after getting pounded with snow has me concerned. There is also an operations update coming this week from Sugarbush, we'll see what that says...

CastlerockMRV · Nov 10, 2020

Delayed opening + all the local mtb trails shutting down on Saturday for Deer hunting = an extra boring stick season.

Hawk · Nov 10, 2020

CastlerockMRV said:
Delayed opening + all the local mtb trails shutting down on Saturday for Deer hunting = an extra boring stick season.

Hunting is not allowed on the mountain. I guess you could pedal up the work roads and go down the MTB trails?

ducky · Nov 10, 2020

Hawk said:
Hunting is not allowed on the mountain. I guess you could pedal up the work roads and go down the MTB trails?

I believe hunting is allowed on the mountain.

Hawk · Nov 11, 2020

You are not supposed to discharge a fire arm while hunting within 500 feet of buildings or areas that are are occupied. Given that the mountain is prepping lifts and conducting preseason activities on trails, that would put where the trails are in the 500 foot zone. Also, if I was a hunter, I would not be hunting around where people and machinery are working. The chances of seeing deer, moose or bear are greatly diminished.

ducky · Nov 11, 2020

Hawk said:
You are not supposed to discharge a fire arm while hunting within 500 feet of buildings or areas that are are occupied. Given that the mountain is prepping lifts and conducting preseason activities on trails, that would put where the trails are in the 500 foot zone. Also, if I was a hunter, I would not be hunting around where people and machinery are working. The chances of seeing deer, moose or bear are greatly diminished.

The 500' rule only applies to the creation of a property owner's Safety Zone and must be posted as such. True that most hunters do not hunt at SB but there are some and it's legal. Hunters' rights are pretty strong and it is the culture here. The default rule is that any property that is not posted is open to hunting, unless a designated prohibited WMU. Being as the primary quarry is white tail deer, they are more likely to be found in the lowlands. Grouse are in season through Dec 31, though hunted with shotgun so no worries about stray shots, and they are often at higher elevations.

"A property owner may establish a 500-foot Safety Zone around an occupied dwelling, residence, barn, stable or other building with signs provided by the Fish & Wildlife Department. These signs shall be placed at each corner of the safety zone and no more than 200 feet apart. Shooting is prohibited in the Safety Zone and no wild animal may be taken within it without permission from the owner."

Fwiw, I have a current hunting license and have passed hunter safety in VT. Funny though, I see the most deer right on the roadside, where it is illegal to hunt, and they're clearly not too afraid of vehicles.

Nick · Nov 11, 2020

this thread is 438 pages and 8700 entries long. believe it or not skimrv.com is back up again but I was debating adding in a VT subforum specifically instead of just the skiing forum. thoughts? or we could use tags instead.

thetrailboss · Nov 11, 2020

Worth a listen. John Hammond talks about taking the helm of Sugarbush. Some teasers--he talks about what Sugarbush was like in 1991 compared to now. He also talks quite a bit about Slidebrook Express (it isn't going to be removed anytime soon) and he also talks about some future terrain expansion. Yes, you read that right.

Podcast #28: Sugarbush President and General Manager John Hammond

The Storm Skiing Podcast is sponsored by Mountain Gazette. The first issue drops in November, and you can get 10 percent off subscriptions with the code “GOHIGHER10” at check-out. Get 10 percent off everything else with the code “EASTCOAST.” Who: John Hammond, President and General Manager of

skiing.substack.com

mbedle · Nov 11, 2020

ducky said:
The 500' rule only applies to the creation of a property owner's Safety Zone and must be posted as such. True that most hunters do not hunt at SB but there are some and it's legal. Hunters' rights are pretty strong and it is the culture here. The default rule is that any property that is not posted is open to hunting, unless a designated prohibited WMU. Being as the primary quarry is white tail deer, they are more likely to be found in the lowlands. Grouse are in season through Dec 31, though hunted with shotgun so no worries about stray shots, and they are often at higher elevations.

"A property owner may establish a 500-foot Safety Zone around an occupied dwelling, residence, barn, stable or other building with signs provided by the Fish & Wildlife Department. These signs shall be placed at each corner of the safety zone and no more than 200 feet apart. Shooting is prohibited in the Safety Zone and no wild animal may be taken within it without permission from the owner."

Fwiw, I have a current hunting license and have passed hunter safety in VT. Funny though, I see the most deer right on the roadside, where it is illegal to hunt, and they're clearly not too afraid of vehicles.

The USDA Forest Service website states that you can not discharge a firearm with 150 yards of a residence, building, campsite, developed recreation site or occupied area. I would think that would cover a lot of the resort considering its a developed recreation site. And the fact that Vermont hunting regulations allow someone to hunt on private property without permission is beyond messed up....

thetrailboss · Nov 11, 2020

mbedle said:
The USDA Forest Service website states that you can not discharge a firearm with 150 yards of a residence, building, campsite, developed recreation site or occupied area. I would think that would cover a lot of the resort considering its a developed recreation site. And the fact that Vermont hunting regulations allow someone to hunt on private property without permission is beyond messed up....

It is common courtesy to ask permission. But AFAIK the rule is if it is not posted than it is open to hunting.

mbedle · Nov 11, 2020

thetrailboss said:
It is common courtesy to ask permission. But AFAIK the rule is if it is not posted than it is open to hunting.

I know its the rule, but that just seems really messed up. Couldn't see that flying too well down here in PA. Do you know what happens if the owner asks the hunter to leave? Do landowners have the right to kick a hunter off the property, even if it is not posted?

ducky · Nov 11, 2020

mbedle said:
I know its the rule, but that just seems really messed up. Couldn't see that flying too well down here in PA. Do you know what happens if the owner asks the hunter to leave? Do landowners have the right to kick a hunter off the property, even if it is not posted?

Not really. Just post the property if you don't want hunters. Most hunters in VT are very respectful and the lands are mostly posted because of the few bad apples out there that ruin it for everyone else. There are like three deer-jackers who are almost solely responsible for all the Posted signs in Warren and none of then are from the Valley.

Btw, Vermont is also an open carry state and you may carry a handgun open or concealed without a permit. Only a federal background check is required when purchasing a firearm. That said, you never see anyone open carrying other than in the woods sometimes.

Ironically, it is perfectly legal to have a loaded handgun on the dashboard or seat of your car (if you get pulled over), however, it is not legal to carry a loaded long gun (rifle or shotgun) in a vehicle or ATV. This law is to prevent "truck hunting" or hunting from the road.

kbroderick · Nov 12, 2020

mbedle said:
I know its the rule, but that just seems really messed up. Couldn't see that flying too well down here in PA. Do you know what happens if the owner asks the hunter to leave? Do landowners have the right to kick a hunter off the property, even if it is not posted?

Kindly don't Pennsylvania Vermont.

Vermont has (state) constitutional protection for the right to hunt, and the history to go with that. Hunters are required to vacate a property if asked to do so by the owner, and—as has been said—it sure seems like more are respectful than not.

For those of us who enjoy outdoor recreation, that strong traditional of public access to private lands is important. Sadly, the number of posted signs going up does seem to regularly increase, even if not all of them are proper postings (to have legal weight, signs must be signed and dated annually by the landowner; they must be hung at corners and across property boundaries within a certain distance, which the Internet says is 400 feet; they must be at least 8.5x11 inches with high-contrast text; and the posting must then be registered with the town clerk).

flakeydog · Nov 12, 2020

Perhaps not knowing the laws and traditions, many move in from other areas and simply post their property by default, thinking they have to for liability protection. Vermont actually has very favorable liability protection for land owners (by design) to keep lands open and accessible for recreation. Posting property does not enhance your liability protection.

Here is a blurb from a VT Fish and Wildlife website on land use:

Liability Protection

Vermont's landowner liability statutes are designed to encourage public access by protecting you from liability.

Provided that you do not charge a fee, you are generally not liable for any property damage or personal injury to a person who uses your property for recreation.

Under 12 V.S.A. §5793, a landowner is not liable for property damage or personal injury for the recreational use of their property, unless the damage or injury is the result of the intentional, willful, or wanton misconduct or gross negligence on the part of the landowner.
Landowner liability increases if a fee or some other consideration is required for the use of the property, since a "higher level of care" (responsibility) is owed to recreationists.

Posting Does Not Affect Liability

The landowner is protected whether or not the land is posted.

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