Slidebrook87
Active member
So is snow made on Upper FIS anymore and is that occurring right now or later this month?
Welcome to AlpineZone, the largest online community of skiers and snowboarders in the Northeast!
You may have to REGISTER before you can post. Registering is FREE, gets rid of the majority of advertisements, and lets you participate in giveaways and other AlpineZone events!
What about epic and the snowmaking budget they gave Wildcat.Funds are limited? We're talking about the owners of the IKON pass. They bragged about sales being up with these passes IIRC. I'm not buying it. That said, they have been very cheap with Solitude this year.
So is snow made on Upper FIS anymore and is that occurring right now or later this month?
Well, again, does anyone have anything solid to say it was money as opposed to staffing and/or weather?What about epic and the snowmaking budget they gave Wildcat.
Probably the slowest opening they've had in a very long time.
See the post in the Vail thread.What about epic and the snowmaking budget they gave Wildcat.
Probably the slowest opening they've had in a very long time.
Interesting article today re: the current winter weather situation. Outlook appears very boom or bust:
https://www.boston.com/uncategorize...ead-to-weeks-of-wild-winter-weather [/QUOTE]hopefully it’s a boom! We need a dump so we can put all this banter about snow making to bed.
Probably not much natural over there.Just out of curiosity sake, not necessarily for myself, but for others on here:
I have yet to see any mention of hiking permitted over to Castlerock. Given the fact that most of the mountain is open, including the much lower elevation terrain, is there a reason why hiking has not been permitted via the LT? Could it be because it would put too many people up on Heaven's Gate? I can only imagine what the lift line would look like at the Rock this season (especially on a Saturday), given it being a double and the chairs spaced so far apart?
CR is my favorite, I’m hoping the mountain decides not to run the CR chair this season & is open for hiking only.Just out of curiosity sake, not necessarily for myself, but for others on here:
I have yet to see any mention of hiking permitted over to Castlerock. Given the fact that most of the mountain is open, including the much lower elevation terrain, is there a reason why hiking has not been permitted via the LT? Could it be because it would put too many people up on Heaven's Gate? I can only imagine what the lift line would look like at the Rock this season (especially on a Saturday), given it being a double and the chairs spaced so far apart?
assume its thin as fuck and they dont want to have to send their patrol down after people who cant hack it.Just out of curiosity sake, not necessarily for myself, but for others on here:
I have yet to see any mention of hiking permitted over to Castlerock. Given the fact that most of the mountain is open, including the much lower elevation terrain, is there a reason why hiking has not been permitted via the LT? Could it be because it would put too many people up on Heaven's Gate? I can only imagine what the lift line would look like at the Rock this season (especially on a Saturday), given it being a double and the chairs spaced so far apart?
That would be my guess as well. As of 1/2*, there was only 27" total snowfall for the season at the base and 39" at the mid-mountain (and that's not accounting for what was washed away in the rain and warmth). That's not much at lower elevations.assume its thin as fuck and they dont want to have to send their patrol down after people who cant hack it.
I would be interested to understand how the new low energy guns output at different temp/ wet bulb temp by a measurement such as cubic feet of snow and the weight of that snow per cubic foot that is produced per gallon of water at various temperatures and if the addition of addition of air or the reduction of water or other atomization can improve the volume to weight. I would think that the ultimate snow would be high volume low weight? Just curious if anyone knows the science and the way to measure performance? We all have preferences but wondering what we are comparing.
Shady Jay, it is great you are still engaging as you were one of our best and hardest working shift leaders and then were one of our lift leaders after snowmaking. I would add that before the low energy guns Sugarbush was ”air short”. We had three 6,000 CFM compressors at LP and two at ME. In early season all had to run and supplemental diesel compressors were brought it. Now it is rare when more than one runs on either side before the water is maxed out. The future the plan will be to increase the amount of water that can be brought up the mountain by increasing pipe diameter and some additional pump. Before COVID hit the initial planning for this was beginning. This is a multi-year and costly initiative. An unlimited amount of water can be withdrawn from the Mad River so long as the flow exceeds the February Mean Level flow. Thus, a plan for an additional snowmaking pond higher on the mountain. The water source at ME is much more limited.For those just joining us, and for a quick refresher:
The "new" guns are designed to operate at a specific water pressure and use a miniscule amount of air compared to the older Ratnik guns. They are considered "fixed flow". The Ratniks you could adjust the water depending on the temperature... in marginal temps, you could turn the water way down and make snow, but the downside was they took up more air. Way more air. The colder it gets, the more water can be applied and thus less air is used. Prior to the mtn getting the "low e" guns, early season, we may have gotten 5, 10, 15 guns online. That doesn't get you very far down Jester or Downspout. At the same time, we'd have all 3 compressors running (and in earlier years, they'd rent compressors) in order to produce the air needed for that small amount of guns. As the temps got colder, air could be "gotten back" by wetting up the existing running guns.
Now fast forward to the past 5-8 years... the new guns can now enable us to get all of Jester and a god portion of Downspout going, if not all of Downspout, on 1 compressor. That is a considerable amount of cost (power) savings, and that is significant especially in these times. The new guns are more elaborate, with moving parts, gauges, handles, etc, that are all suspeptible to the cold. You can't just load 50 of them in the truck and toss them out like you could the Rats. They also are considerably heavy, top heavy, and require more babysitting, especially if pointed the wrong way. A ratnik tripod could be yanked out of a snowbank fairly easy, whereas a Snow Logic gun on a sled needs to be cleared of snow before you can move it, otherwise you're breaking the sled and rendering the gun useless. The less air used also meant the guns have less of a throw, so the snow tends to end up closer to the sled, or on the sled itself, vs a Ratnik that could throw the snow 5-10' away.
Having worked with both, there are pros and cons to each. The work got a lot more intense when the logics came out. It required more manpower, more gun runs, more maintenance. Some of the "art" of snowmaking was lost.... you no longer had to walk into the plume and check snow quality and then have your hydrant guy adjust the water up or down. Finding that perfect mix of air and water was something I enjoyed... until you walked into a plume with the water cranked way up.... you were soaked for the rest of the run.... so you just worked extra hard to warm up (or have the rookie go into the plume on the next gun ;-) ).
Yes, the logics do make a heavier snow consistency, especially in the high teens->20s range. We did try to wait for a trail to "cure" before grooming it, so that mitigated the wet snow factor. For snowmaking snow, you want a degree of heavier snow, since that's what makes it last through the season and able to take the beating of groomers nightly. What does help the snow consistency with logics is the towers, which give the snow more "hangtime" before landing. Logic (and HKD) towers do very well.
During yearly orientation, we were given a manual to study and a couple hours of orientation was dedicated to talking about "snow science". If you're interested in those details, you can apply in the fall. I just wanted to touch on a few basics and a little insight. This topic seems to come up every year. And even though I'm out of the game now (maybe not forever... who knows what the future holds), I will continue to defend my "brothers in black" in the ongoing battle between man and mother nature, so that all can enjoy the winter season. I enjoy talking about it and some nights, I really do miss it... not just snowmaking, but the mountain in general.