The "Sugarbush Thread"

pinnoke said:

And, if you'd like TMI, then I could be coaxed out of Sugarbush snow reporting retirement! What a wonderful 4 seasons I enjoyed in that chair and on my skis (minus the ACL year), when a snow reporter was given the freedom to give a first-hand report. Win only had to call me a FEW times (to tell me there was more new snow than I might have recorded)!

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Your reports were always the absolute best!

Hawk said:

Always been there. I hit it last year early when Steins was just natural snow before they blew it and blew out an edge on my old skis. I was also checking that out last weekend and commented about that.

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Can picture the blowout .. not surprising.
Small bobcat could easily dislodge the boulder cap on that motha'.

Gonna be awhile til THAT gets covered.
Stay vigilant

Pretty cool looking at the webcam at the top of HG tonight and seeing the groomer winch RC for the first time of the season.

Dan Paquette was probably the one in the winch. He has been grooming here over 30 years. (I think 35). And he loves to ski in the morning what he groomed overnight.

Another feature gone from the app I found real useful was the trail map that highlighted what trails are open, groomed, even think it had a snow making symbol, also noted open lifts. One click and you got the big picture.

Interactive trail maps are very useful, seems many have gone away from. Killington still uses it. I find more disturbing the snow report which says, we are making snow on select areas. Worst reporting I've seen done. The whole snow/trail report is useless. Also seems very strange there has been no trail expansion while every other resort is expanding daily.

Poacher it is what it is here at Suarbush for snow making. Plain and simple. They can do one loop of piping at a time and no more. They don't have multiple sets of guns and hoses or capacity. So with the small water and air capacity, they slowly blow the route they set up until there is ample depth, Break down everything, move it to the new location, Set up and blow again. Win has said in the past the Altura has plans to upgrade the system but that will take time.

As for the app, this is what everybody is looking for. When people show up they want an accurate resource that simply shows what trails were groomed, where snow was blown and what's open. Also they want easy access to see the cams so they can avoid lines. The old app was not perfect but at lease it was way easier to see this data. I think the developer of this new app initially missed the mark but they have made some tweeks and it is getting better. The missing part is to get Carly sinc-ed up with the app with the most up to date report. How much snow, what trails were groomed, where the snowmaking is and where the snowmaking is going next should be updated by 7am each day so it is completely and thoroughly accurate.

Hawk said:

Poacher it is what it is here at Suarbush for snow making. Plain and simple. They can do one loop of piping at a time and no more. They don't have multiple sets of guns and hoses or capacity. So with the small water and air capacity, they slowly blow the route they set up until there is ample depth, Break down everything, move it to the new location, Set up and blow again. Win has said in the past the Altura has plans to upgrade the system but that will take time.

As for the app, this is what everybody is looking for. When people show up they want an accurate resource that simply shows what trails were groomed, where snow was blown and what's open. Also they want easy access to see the cams so they can avoid lines. The old app was not perfect but at lease it was way easier to see this data. I think the developer of this new app initially missed the mark but they have made some tweeks and it is getting better. The missing part is to get Carly sinc-ed up with the app with the most up to date report. How much snow, what trails were groomed, where the snowmaking is and where the snowmaking is going next should be updated by 7am each day so it is completely and thoroughly accurate.

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Well said Hawk...

To add from a snow-making perspective, they DID expand terrain recently. Ripcord only came online this week. That took a lot of snow. Then they also had to add substantial depth/cover to DS (it definitely needed it especially going into a holiday period). Knowing the limitations of the current capacity, it should be no surprise to anyone that they didn't expand much more beyond that. I really can't complain about the snow-making plans at LP at all so far.

ME on the other hand is a different story. Very much a shame that there's no route above GMX open over there yet. There were certainly windows with cold temps up high where you didn't have them down low that should have allowed you to cover something up there. I know it was mentioned a pipe broke and had to be fixed...but still disappointing that ME is so limited for now.

Yes, I'm well aware of the limitations of the snowmaking at Sugarbush and have been ok with it. I suppose I'm more disappointed in what they are focusing on and lack of updates. Every other mountain is trying to get people excited, talking about where they blowing and whats opening next. As far as i can tell, they just keep blowing crackerjack. Also, if you position yourself as now the most expensive mountain in the east, with that comes expectations. That being said, I still think it's the best ski mountain east of the Mississippi.

cdskier said:

I know it was mentioned a pipe broke and had to be fixed...

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Was talking to a snowmaker as they were shutting down DS yesterday. He said it wasnt just one pipe.

The Poacher said:

Yes, I'm well aware of the limitations of the snowmaking at Sugarbush and have been ok with it. I suppose I'm more disappointed in what they are focusing on and lack of updates. Every other mountain is trying to get people excited, talking about where they blowing and whats opening next. As far as i can tell, they just keep blowing crackerjack. Also, if you position yourself as now the most expensive mountain in the east, with that comes expectations. That being said, I still think it's the best ski mountain east of the Mississippi.

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Every other mountain is talking that way? You must be excluding ALL Vail properties then....

The Poacher said:

Yes, I'm well aware of the limitations of the snowmaking at Sugarbush and have been ok with it. I suppose I'm more disappointed in what they are focusing on and lack of updates. Every other mountain is trying to get people excited, talking about where they blowing and whats opening next. As far as i can tell, they just keep blowing crackerjack.

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Crackerjack and Riemergasse at ME. Between those 2 you're probably pretty close to maxing out the system over there. Maybe with the way the snow-making pumps/system is setup, it just is easier to blow Crackerjack at the same time as Riemergasse. Or maybe if you're running water to the terrain park, you don't even have enough capacity to pump water to some other section of the mountain.

TSQURD said:

Was talking to a snowmaker as they were shutting down DS yesterday. He said it wasnt just one pipe.

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Ouch...that's tough if true and would certainly explain it a bit better than a single pipe.

machski said:

Every other mountain is talking that way? You must be excluding ALL Vail properties then....

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It's OK if I think the reporting is not great. But yes, even vail resorts talk it up much better. Below is okemo today. Guys I love Sugarbush, but the approach does seem a bit off right now. The old snow reports were the best. If the multiple broken pipes is true, why not share that with us? Seems like a good idea

Trails to look forwards to in the future:

A few trails that Snowmaking worked on last night are Moment’s Rest, Sprint, Lower Rim Rock and Sidewinder. Thanks to our hard working Snowmaking Team we hope to add these trails in the near future.

The Poacher said:

It's OK if I think the reporting is not great. But yes, even vail resorts talk it up much better. Below is okemo today. Guys I love Sugarbush, but the approach does seem a bit off right now. The old snow reports were the best. If the multiple broken pipes is true, why not share that with us? Seems like a good idea

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Yea...that's a tricky situation. I like transparency myself (even if it is bad news), but can also understand not exactly wanting to advertise that you had multiple broken pipes that prevented you from making snow on upper ME terrain (assuming that is true). I do recall a couple years ago when the pipe on Ripcord blew and required an excavator to repair that they mentioned it in the report. So there is a bit of precedent for doing that though. (Although that was also a very visible issue that would have been difficult to hide/ignore)

I hope there's more trails coming online this weekend. heading up tomorrow for my first turns of the season.

HowieT2 said:

I hope there's more trails coming online this weekend. heading up tomorrow for my first turns of the season.

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Fingers crossed for Crackerjack...

Just a bit of clarification on snowmaking capacity. The limitation is not the amount of gear (guns, hoses).it is actually the volume of water that can pass through the existing snowmaking pipes. At LP that is around 4,000 gallons per minute and an ME it is now close to 3,000. At LP is it possible to charge more than one line. For instance, guns could run on Sleeper and Lower Organgrinder simultaneously. But one thing to keep in mind is not to spread the Snowmakers too thin so they can not stay on top of it. Conditions can change quickly and they need to be able to respond. Sugarbush uses both towers and land guns. Towers, especially those that have HKD SV-10’s, turn out great snow on trails like Upper Ripcord, Snowball and Spring Fling. But many of our trails are too narrow or under lifts and have to use land guns. They are more labor intensive. You will notice that Snowmakers anticipate where snow will next be made and will move equipment in anticipation of that. They were doing that yesterday getting ready to blow on Sleeper. Some additional land guns might help a bit but the real need is larger arteries which is what my long-term plan was and I would imagine what Alterra will support too. That is a multi-year permitting and construction process and very expensive. The problem with trail expansion has been the need to go back and start almost from scratch after the few warm and rain events we have experienced, Downspout was almost down to gravel after the last one. Sugsrbush was not alone in needing to do this.

The plan at ME is a judgment call, and I said I would not give opinions but just try to clarify based on my experience. Here is the thinking I believe. The Christmas Holiday crowd is largely beginner/intermediate skiers who often ski once or twice a year. Having two easy trails to the base is preferable than having everyone going down Straight Shot Which can turn into a luge run after a few hours. While snow was being made on Crackerjack, the guns were also on at Riemergasse (yes, the snow report was not showing that until yesterday). I believe the park is viewed as too as a Holiday priority as it also allows another lift and keeps a lot of skiers and riders in the park instead of on other trails. The park requires a lot of snow to construct the hits. The pipe break on Elbow hurt because there were days when only snowmaking at higher elevations was possible. The snow report now shows Which Way is opening today (snowmaking on it was not shown on the snow report).

If you got out yesterday, you would have experienced a very different DS. Nice dry snowmaking with the trail much better covered. ( it was an ideal night for snowmaking). The first groom on Ripcord was great and should be even better this morning. Dan did the initial groom on the first shift and Warren finished on the second. Dan texted me in the am to say GPS showed depth of 6-10’ across Ripcord as he groomed the whales out. They started with depth in the middle teens up top.

Now we will have to wait and see what this next weather events brings. I don’t think we will lose snow, but we could see some freezing rain Go make things slick. Hopefully it will end with some inches of snow.

ps: last Christmas it was 65 in Burlington so things are better this year.

machski said:

Every other mountain is talking that way? You must be excluding ALL Vail properties then....

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Sunday River is certainly kicking ass and taking names. You guys have routes down every peak this weekend with over 50 trails. This at a mountain that is 1000 feet shorter. If Sugarbush had 1/2 that capacity we would be killing it right now. And the head lines on the website front page always say what is opening next. I am not sure how many here have skied so far this year but I am worried about how many will show this year. You can feel the pulse. It is different. Very shortly we will need more terrain or it will be chaos.

Spreading yourself thin is something you do not want to do when it comes to snowmaking. As Win said, things can turn bad really quickly... especially with wind changes and working around lift lines. If they're making on Sleeper, that means they're probably also hitting (at least) the upper half of Hot Shot. Hot Shot itself requires 40 land guns (from top of GH down to Sugarbear Rd) on a lift line so that requires a lot of maintenance right there. Getting trails like Birdland/Murphy's online I would think would be next, as it helps to spread out the crowds off the top of Bravo. They're both "main mtn" supply trails so you don't have to charge those lines like you do with routes off Spring Fling. Charging the lines takes water away from other guns too so that reduces your capacity. We all know Sleeper is one of the busiest trails on the mtn... all the kids love it, so getting it open ASAP is a big plus.

First day out today. A couple of thoughts. First, I am rusty and out of shape. Second, oddly enough Downspout to lower DS to lower jester to gondolier was my favorite run today. Even the upper part of downspout to HG was chalky and edgeable. Snowball to Spring Fling was a mixed bag. I went from loose edgeable snow to boilerplate and back. Made for some tougher skiing. We didn’t ride up HG. Don’t know why.

Skiing again tomorrow and praying for an all snow event. I’m an ikon pass holder but I bought multi day tix for my two kids and would hate to waste them. They are for tmrw and Sunday.