The "Sugarbush Thread"

Lotso said:

+1
Gunstock or Crotched used to do this, I think...The Noon Groom

Once LSnowball and RE are done you could close SF pretty easily. Would be huge PR boost. Same for Elbow or Cruiser. Would have to stage cats so you don't have them cruising through customers to get there, but could be done (until you ask the Risk Manager or the lawyers)

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They used to do a noon groom at SB for a brief time. On Gatehouse side IIRC.

There is a decent bit of extra effort to a Noon Groom - if you do it right you need patrollers to sweep and block trails, you have to have cats staged and kept warm or shuttled over with an escort, it can cause traffic problems while it's closed, and then you probably want to put the cats back in the barn so more patrol work there. It's certainly not insurmountable but it's not trivial either, especially if patrol and ops are shorthanded. In the Southeast a lot of resorts used to fully close down from 4:30-6PM and then reopen with fresh till on basically the whole mountain for night skiing, but they could set up the whole operating schedule around it and it's a lot easier to control access to one trail pod with one main access point.

My take on Ikon is it crowds powder days more as ikon holders follow the snow more than individual mountain season passes ever did. Agree that with covid we have not seen the real affect yet. I'm worried about what will happen.

During the winter 2008/2009 (or maybe the year after), there was a midday groom on Birch Run and Sleeper. It didn't last more than that one season. Sleeper is really the only base area trail you could do it with since there is the back door to the maintenance area where the groomers are kept... otherwise you're driving groomers behind the base lodge, and that's never a good thing, espec on a busy weekend/holiday period. Regarding Spring Fling, there's no easy access midday between the maintenance lot and the trail. If you really wanted to do it, you could stash a groomer way off to skier's left at the bottom (below Moonshine but above Coffee Run), but you'd probably have to put up some substantial barricades or something to keep the skiers away.

When looking at a midday groom, you also have to not just close the trail, but keep people away. A simple "closed" rope isn't going to cut it... you need a couple patrollers at that rope explaining why the trail is closed. And then there's the woods areas... Deeper sleeper is in between Hot Shot and Sleeper and we all know that you enter/exit the woods from a designated open trail, right? So the same problem could crop up with Eden... popping out onto Spring Fling, while its being groomed. Not the greatest.

Groomers are very dangerous machines and they need to be respected by all. Its best to keep them off the hill during business hours, and hope that after-hours uphill/downhill traffic, as well as other employees keep their distance during off-hours. (Unfortunately, this came up at another ski area in New England recently, with tragic results. My condolences to all involved).

Vail and Beaver Creek used to do a noon groom, which led to skiers following close behind, and even among, the cats, until the day the inevitable happened, fortunately without fatal results. The practice ended with that shift and did not resume.

Keelhauled said:

Vail and Beaver Creek used to do a noon groom, which led to skiers following close behind, and even among, the cats, until the day the inevitable happened, fortunately without fatal results. The practice ended with that shift and did not resume.

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Tragically there was a fatal result just this week at Jiminy Peak. Not related to a mid-day groom in this case, but illustrates the danger.

shadyjay said:

Whales on Pushover..... that is DEFINITELY something that should be mentioned in the snow report. Especially since the app doesn't show grooming status on trails. A mention of no easier route open from the top of Gate House may be important information to pass along.

I did get a good laugh on Monday's report when it said things were going to "soften up". It was in the 20s down here in CT on Monday. Given the freeze/thaws and lack of natural lately, I think I'm going to delay my visit up there until early March. I can't imagine going to Mt Ellen and not being able to lap some of my favorite runs off Summit/NRE. In lean snow years in the early 90s during the Christmas/NYE holiday, Lincoln Peak had minimal trails open (picture what was open on GH side this year + Downspout + Spring Fling... that's it), while Mt Ellen had pretty much all of its snowmaking-capable trails open. Mt Ellen was the early/late season mtn too, so you started with Summit and worked down.

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I learned to ski in 2018-2019 and whales combined with low visibility made me totally nauseous! Some folks want to play on the whales and others want to avoid them at all costs. Whales info on the snow report is appreciated… as well as recommendations such as “trail X is firm and fast! Sharpen your skis or sharpen your skills with a lesson and get after it”. There’s still a way to inspire a little stoke even in sub par conditions. Nobody hits 50+ days of skiing in VT if they only ski on pow days.

Wait until it snows and then see how big the crowds are nowhere to run nowhere to hide

teleo said:

My take on Ikon is it crowds powder days more as ikon holders follow the snow more than individual mountain season passes ever did. Agree that with covid we have not seen the real affect yet. I'm worried about what will happen.

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NYSnowflake said:

I learned to ski in 2018-2019 and whales combined with low visibility made me totally nauseous! Some folks want to play on the whales and others want to avoid them at all costs. Whales info on the snow report is appreciated… as well as recommendations such as “trail X is firm and fast! Sharpen your skis or sharpen your skills with a lesson and get after it”. There’s still a way to inspire a little stoke even in sub par conditions. Nobody hits 50+ days of skiing in VT if they only ski on pow days.

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You don’t know the Mohr family ?

STREETSKIER said:

Wait until it snows and then see how big the crowds are nowhere to run nowhere to hide


You don’t know the Mohr family ?

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Mohr family? No… is there a joke here I am missing?

1dog said:

Its the 21st century and we are low on available power. . . .that amazes me.
We have ability to develop hydro, nuclear, nat. gas ( at less than half the carbon issue as other fossil fuels), as well as coal and oil for back up ( like what was used at COP21 when the wind farms failed)
If its price, one can understand not paying the price, but when its limited by the power company because they can't generate enough - that just seems like we are in a time warp.
Wonder what the kilowatt usage is compared to last 5-7 years for the state of Vermont.

We had an old village colonial in Quechee in the 80's - a red light would come on around 4:30 PM to 7 - if you used power then, it was gonna cost you more.

Thats different than limiting power usage.

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VT, decided to close the only Nuc power plant that VT received power from, as far as i know without opening up a new power plant.

NYSnowflake said:

Mohr family? No… is there a joke here I am missing?

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Emily Johnson and Brian Mohr. They are a VT institution. Google them. They are know for skinning and skiing all over VT and actuall the world. They are responcible for many of the Iconic snow photos you see in VT publications. They ski a lot of Pow.

Ember Photography

Brian Mohr Insta

Go to the Ember website to Gallery and look at VT Skiing for some good stoke and an idea of what they ski.

thius morning the view conditions button brings me to a totally blank page.

You know we definitely need snow when people are debating the merits of a mid day groom at Sugarbush

KustyTheKlown said:

thius morning the view conditions button brings me to a totally blank page.

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The website is working fine for me...

KustyTheKlown said:

thius morning the view conditions button brings me to a totally blank page.

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That happens to me everyday. I think it is an issue with the browser. I just refresh several times and It comes up.

At lease it is white now. Maybe an inch or two. Headed out soon after my last call.

Great to see some natural snow trails opening up...I imagine it's rugged, but that's what rock skis are for!

Would be great if web cams could be cleaned off once in a while...just sayin'. ME and Allyn's ones are iced over

MisterMagoo said:

WinS, JohnnyB: Has mid-day grooming ever been considered at SB? Seems that closing a trail or 2 for a bit during the day for resurfacing would boost overall customer satisfaction… especially during lean-snow times like we’ve got now.

Just a thought…..

—MM

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Shady gave a detailed and accurate answer. We did groom on Sleeper for awhile, but it was logistically challenging and we concluded not worth continuing. An additional reason other than what Shady said is the difficulty of preventing someone from coming out of the woods onto the trail even if the trail is roped off. One could enter Deeper Sleeper and pop out right in front of a groomer on Sleeper. A few year again Vail had a young child killed by a mid-day groomer.

Hawk said:

That happens to me everyday. I think it is an issue with the browser. I just refresh several times and It comes up.

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Yeah its a daily occurrence for me as well. Refreshing doesn't always work. I have to be ready to click on "VIEW MORE" on the Conditions text and then I get it.

Another app glitch... if you try to click INFO at bottom right, then "Snow Report on Website", it takes you to a snow report from this past Monday. I tried to use this workaround to view what's been groomed or where snowmaking is taking place, and then I noticed the report it was linking me to was 5 days old. This could really confuse someone.