The "Sugarbush Thread"

dustyroads · Jan 12, 2022

I walked the dog at the snowmaking pond yesterday and noticed the water was down about 3 to 4 feet. Is that going to be a problem?

Lotso · Jan 12, 2022

Stein's is smoking this morning

Hawk · Jan 12, 2022

There is a storm in the forecast. I am not going to comment on it other than it is good to see something after so many blank weeks. lets all pray for snow! as Herni Burell always says to me.

KustyTheKlown · Jan 12, 2022

im really glad to see it, but worried about a westward shift in the track. the timing is also tricky for anyone trying to ski the holiday weekend.

jimmywilson69 · Jan 12, 2022

the models will be all over the place with a storm of this magnitude. Its only Wednesday ...

djd66 · Jan 12, 2022

shadyjay said:
Oh I definitely have had some 7 days+ of snowmaking. Its rough, especially in these temps. A trail like HS is even worse, since its 100% land gear and needs constant attention with the liftline. Most of the hydrants on Waterfall are double hydrants, so you have one gun stretched out ~ 50' on the headwall and the next one is 50' further out. Then there are the hoses to deal with, and you hope with your positioning that you're not burying the adjacent gun, the hoses, or (worse) the lift. Nothing is worse than going into lift maintenance in the am and telling them you got a chair. [[[In fact, I just read a line in a book about 1-1 adjusting a gun that was hitting a chair.... hmmm.....]]]. Its probably the second most challenging trail at LP to make snow on.... Lower Downspout would probably be the worst, with Birch being #3.

In a typical snow year, Mt Ellen would be done with snowmaking by now and the crews consolidated at Lincoln Peak. Some years, we were essentially done at LP by Christmas week (with the exception of Stein's and spring-depth increases for SB->Fling) and it was back to lift ops. I feel for the crew this year, dealing with the ever- changing weather and poor temps, then the push to get it made while the gettin's good.

[And if you're looking for snowmaking icons on the web site, you're not alone. I was surprised to read that HS->Waterfall was opening, not realizing they were making snow on it. There has been no snow icons on any trail at LP recently except Birch and Pushover].

Shady - Thank you for all the info you provide this forum! Its awesome to hear from someone that actually did the work. Based on your posts, you seem extremely knowledgeable with the current snowmaking system and what it takes to run it. If you were to make changes to the current system - what would you do? Love to hear where you see shortfalls and easy improvements to the existing system.

thetrailboss · Jan 12, 2022

The Sugarbush "I am a Snowmaker" video:

To vote: https://www.saminfo.com/i-am-a-snowmaker?start=5

shadyjay · Jan 12, 2022

djd66 said:
Shady - Thank you for all the info you provide this forum! Its awesome to hear from someone that actually did the work. Based on your posts, you seem extremely knowledgeable with the current snowmaking system and what it takes to run it. If you were to make changes to the current system - what would you do? Love to hear where you see shortfalls and easy improvements to the existing system.

What would I do.... hmmmmmm....

Well the replacement of pipe throughout the mountain is #1. This is slowly being done, but takes time, $$$, and resources.
As far as towers, you really can't convert too many other trails... maybe Murphy's, Birch, and Sunrise, and a few more on Sleeper. But that's it. Convert towers/hydrants to the Klik system for a much quicker fireup. Since you're stuck with ground gear on a lot of trails (Birdland, DS runout, Middle Jester, Upper Jester, etc), you need the manpower to run the system. And since good snowmakers are hard to come by, incentives for the crew to stay and keep coming back year-after-year.

Snowmaking is a fight with mother nature. She's gonna throw curveballs at you and do everything she can so that you don't make snow. Those things you can't overcome, but you can be more prepared. It would be awesome to be able to have a gun/hoses stationed at each hydrant, so that you don't have to waste time moving gear to go from one trail to another. That would require, what, another 100 land guns? They take up a lot more space than the ratniks did.
But look how much easier it would be to resurface, without having to set up a trail/move guns around? We really weren't allowed to do much setup during the day (and for good reason, a snowmobile pulling hoses and guns up and down open trails... ). Sure, you'd have to worry about the gear getting burried in a snowstorm, but when it did, then you didn't need to make snow. In the spring, go through and collect all the gear and bring it down for storage.

Long term, another water source further up the access road.

Hawk · Jan 12, 2022

Thanks Shady.
So baically what we have been saying on here for what, the last 15 years? Don't worry. Altera is listening and it's on their radar.

WinS · Jan 12, 2022

dustyroads said:
I walked the dog at the snowmaking pond yesterday and noticed the water was down about 3 to 4 feet. Is that going to be a problem?

The very cold locks up the streams that feed The Mad River. Sugarbush can only refill when the River in flowing above the February mean flow level. Tomorrow‘s warm-up should cause more flow and allow the lord to refill.

WinS · Jan 12, 2022

shadyjay said:
What would I do.... hmmmmmm....

Well the replacement of pipe throughout the mountain is #1. This is slowly being done, but takes time, $$$, and resources.
As far as towers, you really can't convert too many other trails... maybe Murphy's, Birch, and Sunrise, and a few more on Sleeper. But that's it. Convert towers/hydrants to the Klik system for a much quicker fireup. Since you're stuck with ground gear on a lot of trails (Birdland, DS runout, Middle Jester, Upper Jester, etc), you need the manpower to run the system. And since good snowmakers are hard to come by, incentives for the crew to stay and keep coming back year-after-year.

Snowmaking is a fight with mother nature. She's gonna throw curveballs at you and do everything she can so that you don't make snow. Those things you can't overcome, but you can be more prepared. It would be awesome to be able to have a gun/hoses stationed at each hydrant, so that you don't have to waste time moving gear to go from one trail to another. That would require, what, another 100 land guns? They take up a lot more space than the ratniks did.
But look how much easier it would be to resurface, without having to set up a trail/move guns around? We really weren't allowed to do much setup during the day (and for good reason, a snowmobile pulling hoses and guns up and down open trails... ). Sure, you'd have to worry about the gear getting burried in a snowstorm, but when it did, then you didn't need to make snow. In the spring, go through and collect all the gear and bring it down for storage.

Long term, another water source further up the access road.

The last item is the most important and the most expensive. The main pipe running up to the mountain from the pond is 18” in diameter. A new pond could allow another 18” pipe from there (across from the Sugarbush Inn) or 36” from there and the old 18” only refilling the new pond. In the meantime the other items Shady mentioned will hopefully get funded. Not sure about leaving land guns out all season though for a number of reasons including safety and grooming.

El Bishop · Jan 13, 2022

Anyone know what shape the uphill route at Mt. Ellen is in? It's advertised daily in the snow report but I imagine it's a bit gnarly.

Lotso · Jan 13, 2022

El Bishop said:
Anyone know what shape the uphill route at Mt. Ellen is in? It's advertised daily in the snow report but I imagine it's a bit gnarly.

I heard it is "a rubble pile" above the Lower FIS runout

El Bishop · Jan 13, 2022

I think the daytime uphill route idea is fantastic -- just need some snow!

Smellytele · Jan 13, 2022

El Bishop said:
I think the daytime uphill route idea is fantastic -- just need some snow!

I just can’t find the paper work on line they want you to fill out before hand.

cdskier · Jan 13, 2022

Smellytele said:
I just can’t find the paper work on line they want you to fill out before hand.

The link is on this page (agreed that it is not very easy to find):

Uphill Travel

Learn more about skinning at Sugarbush!

www.sugarbush.com

Hawk · Jan 13, 2022

Can someone please explain to me why you need to apply for an uphill pass if you already have a season pass that releases the mountain from any liability? It does not may sence to me. I have skinned up Ellen at lease a half a dozen times and have yet to be stopped or checked. I didn't realize you needed a pass until recently but until someone stops me I am not going to bother.

cdskier · Jan 13, 2022

Hawk said:
Can someone please explain to me why you need to apply for an uphill pass if you already have a season pass that releases the mountain from any liability? It does not may sence to me. I have skinned up Ellen at lease a half a dozen times and have yet to be stopped or checked. I didn't realize you needed a pass until recently but until someone stops me I am not going to bother.

My guess is it is a way for them to get you to acknowledge that you read and understand the uphill policy specifically. At least it is free!

Hawk · Jan 13, 2022

You might be right but I think it is overkill. I have been skinning at Sugarbush for years, before there was such a thing as policy, under the radar, day or night, without incident. I have sucessfully evaded ski patrol, groomers, sleds, snowmakers, whatever. Never had an issue and never caused a problem. Like anything it is the advent of the new un-educated, over stepping people that ruin everything and force policy.

No I will keep doing my covernt thing unti they come get me. Good luck to them. ;-)

Hawk · Jan 13, 2022

El Bishop said:
I think the daytime uphill route idea is fantastic -- just need some snow!

To anwser your question, it is doable right now but will be much improved after Monday's storm.

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