The "Sugarbush Thread"

urungus · Oct 21, 2023

In article at https://www.peakrankings.com/content/ski-resort-upgrades-2023-24 it mentions

Over on the Mount Ellen Side, Sugarbush is officializing its Rob Royce trail off the Summit Quad, a narrow, expert-oriented run to skiers’ right of the lift that’s technically been there since the ‘60s but hasn’t been counted as a formal trail in recorded memory.

Anyone have more info on this, I searched this forum (and also a general Google search) for “Rob Royce” but no matches ?
I guess this is to keep their trail count at 111 after the merging of the two traverses ?

Getskied · Oct 21, 2023

MadPadraic said:
My understanding (and I hope I'm right, but more knowledgable ppl will probably chime in), is that Deathspout was created by a combination of heavy traffic and the snowmaking style that they were forced to employ on it for early season operations. The implication is that if they now have the option to open with the newly recut traverse trail, which will let them blow a nicer surface on Downspout.

Others may disagree but I think this is the product you pretty much get from air limited low-e guns, especially SnowLogics. Downspout will always deteriorate rapidly on a weekend but it was doing that with earlier snow gun models too (I’m pretty sure Sugarbush has always blown denser snow due to limited air capacity).

I am not in the “fix all crappy conditions at all times with snowmaking” camp but Downspout definitely blows with young kids who are intermediate skiers otherwise. The bad conditions combine with Joeys going way too fast pretty much all day. Hopefully the new traverse does ease things a bit, and maybe someday Sugarbush will decide to start resurfacing trails more than once a year, in which case Downspout could definitely use some Klik hydrants and a plan for frequent light touch ups. I’m not sure I can think of anywhere on either mountain more deserving of an actual resurfacing plan.

Naturalsnow · Oct 21, 2023

urungus said:
In article at https://www.peakrankings.com/content/ski-resort-upgrades-2023-24 it mentions

Over on the Mount Ellen Side, Sugarbush is officializing its Rob Royce trail off the Summit Quad, a narrow, expert-oriented run to skiers’ right of the lift that’s technically been there since the ‘60s but hasn’t been counted as a formal trail in recorded memory.

Anyone have more info on this, I searched this forum (and also a general Google search) for “Rob Royce” but no matches ?
I guess this is to keep their trail count at 111 after the merging of the two traverses ?

Interesting. A trail shows in that location on this map from before the original opening of Glen Ellen:

Skimap.org link

But there are other trails on that map that were never constructed (e.g. the pod above Inverness), so I don't know if that one ever opened as an official trail.

Newpylong · Oct 21, 2023

Getskied said:
Others may disagree but I think this is the product you pretty much get from air limited low-e guns, especially SnowLogics. Downspout will always deteriorate rapidly on a weekend but it was doing that with earlier snow gun models too (I’m pretty sure Sugarbush has always blown denser snow due to limited air capacity).

I am not in the “fix all crappy conditions at all times with snowmaking” camp but Downspout definitely blows with young kids who are intermediate skiers otherwise. The bad conditions combine with Joeys going way too fast pretty much all day. Hopefully the new traverse does ease things a bit, and maybe someday Sugarbush will decide to start resurfacing trails more than once a year, in which case Downspout could definitely use some Klik hydrants and a plan for frequent light touch ups. I’m not sure I can think of anywhere on either mountain more deserving of an actual resurfacing plan.

It's a common misnomar that Low E equipment makes wet snow. It CAN make wet snow, and can also make dry snow. It's all about how they're utilized and adjusted by the snowmakers.

SnowLogics are a terrible early season option due to their low air consumption even at lower stages. They would be better served by moving them somewhere else and replacing with Impulses. At around 100 CFM at Stage 1 they still work decently in marginal temps.

Getskied · Oct 21, 2023

Newpylong said:
It's a common misnomar that Low E equipment makes wet snow. It CAN make wet snow, and can also make dry snow. It's all about how they're utilized and adjusted by the snowmakers.

SnowLogics are a terrible early season option due to their low air consumption even at lower stages. They would be better served by moving them somewhere else and replacing with Impulses. At around 100 CFM at Stage 1 they still work decently in marginal temps.

That makes sense. I was mostly thinking SnowLogics when I wrote that, perhaps there are settings under which they make drier snow but I have yet to experience it at SB.

The early season buildout definitely gets no favors from the ubiquity of SnowLogics guns in SB’s arsenal.

Newpylong · Oct 22, 2023

Yeah I want to say their DVs use a max of 50 CFM on the first stage and I don't care how good the gun is that's just not enough to nucleate when it's a ~24+ degree wet bulb. The end result is theyll make slop. In comparison the HKD Impulse will use 100 CFM in stages 1 and 2 which means even when it's marginal they can put down a product that resembles snow.

tumbler · Oct 23, 2023

urungus said:
In article at https://www.peakrankings.com/content/ski-resort-upgrades-2023-24 it mentions

Over on the Mount Ellen Side, Sugarbush is officializing its Rob Royce trail off the Summit Quad, a narrow, expert-oriented run to skiers’ right of the lift that’s technically been there since the ‘60s but hasn’t been counted as a formal trail in recorded memory.

Anyone have more info on this, I searched this forum (and also a general Google search) for “Rob Royce” but no matches ?
I guess this is to keep their trail count at 111 after the merging of the two traverses ?

Not sure about this, I think we would have heard something about it before this article. Also, that is the only section of MT Ellen that is under forest service control so I don't think it happening.

tumbler · Oct 23, 2023

And some snow at the summit last night...

Hawk · Oct 23, 2023

No one I talked to has ever heard of this. Did someone actually make this up? Really strange.

cdskier · Oct 23, 2023

Sugarbush did say they were adding a trail to the list to keep them at 111 since Reverse Traverse is going to now be HGT the entire length. I'm kind of suspecting this article mis-heard the trail name though. I see a "Rob Roy" on older Glen Ellen maps in the 60s that might make more sense though as that looks like just a short connector trail section (possibly the one off Lookin' Good that later had a different name as well I believe before becoming entirely nameless).

tumbler · Oct 23, 2023

thetrailboss · Oct 23, 2023

cdskier said:
Sugarbush did say they were adding a trail to the list to keep them at 111 since Reverse Traverse is going to now be HGT the entire length. I'm kind of suspecting this article mis-heard the trail name though. I see a "Rob Roy" on older Glen Ellen maps in the 60s that might make more sense though as that looks like just a short connector trail section (possibly the one off Lookin' Good that later had a different name as well I believe before becoming entirely nameless).

Yeah, Rob Roy was the trail formerly known as Zip. At least that is how I interpret the maps. Zip might have been "Wee Lad". Regardless, both were quite short connectors that barely warrant a trail name. I know that we've had a running joke for years about how much we all missed Zip and all of its awesomeness. There was no "Rob Royce" trail. "Rob Roy" is in line with the whole Scottish theme that they had.

I believe that there may be some very technical informal glades to the skier's right of the upper part of the Summit Quad, but they are not a trail and certainly the USFS and Vermont ANR don't know, let alone approve, of this terrain.

Sounds like Zip is coming back.

Back to the Future.

kingslug · Oct 23, 2023

Never had much of a problem with downspout...
Weekends though.........

flakeydog · Oct 26, 2023

Rob Roy looks to have become "Zip", a classic if there ever was one...

There was a trail of sorts cut back in the 70's that essentially the corner between Upper Rim Run and the section that passes the bottom of FIS. I have never name for it and the rumor was that it was cut prior to approvals and has since grown back. I agree with some here that the prospect of cutting a new trail >4,000ft is not likely to happen, though a trail from the summit down to lower Rim Run would be great.

tumbler · Oct 31, 2023

Any word if SB fired up the guns? The webcams are not working again so can't tell

Hawk · Oct 31, 2023

They work if you to the the sugarbush youtube site. There is nothing going on that I can see on the 10 web cams. Also, I was walking around last Friday and they are all set up on Gate house with guns. I assume we are going to do that lames ass start again. Oh well.

tumbler · Oct 31, 2023

That's how I view them but some days they work and other days the don't. Weird.

flakeydog · Oct 31, 2023

Youtube works the best for me plus you can see all of them. As far as running the guns on Gatehouse, I think maybe they get some low elevation terrain to blast if the temps allow. Seems there is way more chances to blow up high but if they can quickly take advantage down low, they should. Plus, the Gatehouse route is much shorter without so much linear coverage required. Jester and the lower mountain runout are tough to get open in rapid fashion, long narrow trails are not easy to cover early season.

tumbler · Oct 31, 2023

I would have been very surprised if they fired up. Their announced snowmaking start date is Nov 1 (which I know is tomorrow) and they normally are not aggressive. Long range looks warm too. I have liked the Snowball->Spring Fling early season route, it is much better than Jester- Downspout and downloading.

MadPadraic · Nov 1, 2023

Any on the ground reports on snowmaking? An email from last week said they would start making snow today (Nov 1) and today's email said opening was "just around the corner." So far nothing on the webcams, but I assume they would be blowing at the top of Gatehouse where there isn't a cam.

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