The "Sugarbush Thread"

Cutting down trees seems to be taboo in most places...yet they did create reverse traverse..

So the whole saga of the Slidebrook lift and the developement on the that entiere flank and basin goes back to Les Otten days. There were several deals cut with the State and US forest service that shaped what was done. Because of concerns about the bear habitat, the human impact on the terrain, erosion and water concerns, I think it will be a hard sell to cut more trails on the south facing aspect. The lift and the skier access we have now was a long negotiation. I strongly doubt we will see any changes soon. You have to understand were the whole thing before making broad statements about the development. It's simply not that simple. ;-)

kingslug said:

Cutting down trees seems to be taboo in most places...yet they did create reverse traverse..

Click to expand...

That went through a process that took 2 years to just relocate one section of an existing trail and add snowmaking. What do you think the process would be to cut new trails in areas deamed critical habitat?

thetrailboss said:

The State of Vermont and the USFS would not allow it to be developed. This was the compromise. It is what it is. We’re talking about decisions made 30 years ago….

Click to expand...

Hawk said:

So the whole saga of the Slidebrook lift and the developement on the that entiere flank and basin goes back to Les Otten days. There were several deals cut with the State and US forest service that shaped what was done. Because of concerns about the bear habitat, the human impact on the terrain, erosion and water concerns, I think it will be a hard sell to cut more trails on the south facing aspect. The lift and the skier access we have now was a long negotiation. I strongly doubt we will see any changes soon. You have to understand were the whole thing before making broad statements about the development. It's simply not that simple. ;-)

Click to expand...

I get it, it’s just a shame. With Ikon, brings more
Crowds, puts more pressure on getting people out of the base and you need more pods. Then to think out West they can add chairs and build villages and expand. Here, it’s perpetually 1975. No expansion ever, no growth, nothing new. It’s just a shame.

I have been skiing at Sugarbush for 30 years now. I came here because I love the mountain. Some change is good but I personnally don't want to see them cut new trails everywhere. Most likely it will affect areas that I currently ski anyway.

Like I have said before. Altera will upgrade out lifts and snowmaking. There will be some kind of downturn forcing them to sell off assets, They will go away and we will have the mountain back. It's the long game that I am playing and most of the Jonny come latelys will go with them and our crowning problems we go away.

slatham said:

C

Correct about Slide Brook, but a Master Plan from the Win Smith era did show trails and lift between North Linx and Castle Rock. Some nice terrain in there…..

Click to expand...

Right. I was speaking only about Slide Brook.

Careful what you wish for,… I think Alterra has been good for passholders and Sugarbush.

As far as adding trails, I’m not talking about a massive buildout, I’m thinking a trail off of sunrise and 1 or 2 trails off of birch. That would make that a great pod for the skiers on gatehouse and have additional options to the people skiing pushover

Has any else seen this? Liftblog shows NRX being replaced in 2025. Is liftblog a reliable source?

slatham said:

C

Correct about Slide Brook, but a Master Plan from the Win Smith era did show trails and lift between North Linx and Castle Rock. Some nice terrain in there…..

Click to expand...

no, thank you. 'nothing to see here. move along.

djd66 said:

Has any else seen this? Liftblog shows NRX being replaced in 2025. Is liftblog a reliable source?

2025 New Lifts

This is a list of new lifts likely to be built in the United States and Canada during the 2025 construction season. Last updated 3/23/2024. Have an addition or correction? Comment below or email P…

liftblog.com

Click to expand...

Yes. Peter Landsman is an expert on all-things lift related and is a credible source. He regularly talks to manufacturer reps and other industry players.

SB initially announced that NRX and Heaven's Gate would be replaced this summer. They quietly walked the NRX announcement back. Several months ago someone posted a link to a select board or design review board meeting for Fayston, Waitsfield, or Warren where the SB spokesperson said that the NRX replacement was delayed.

Hawk said:

Like I have said before. Altera will upgrade out lifts and snowmaking. There will be some kind of downturn forcing them to sell off assets, They will go away and we will have the mountain back. It's the long game that I am playing and most of the Jonny come latelys will go with them and our crowning problems we go away.

Click to expand...

I think that may be an optimistic forecast. The forces that ended ASC and others don't seem to be a factor for Vail or Alterra. Yet at least. The latter is also completely private so they have more control. The industry has consolidated far much more than in the 1990's and early 2000's. As long as the discount multi-mountain season pass product is the driving force in the market, these two will remain.

kingslug said:

This will be like the time 10,000 showed up.
2 years ago?

Click to expand...

Sunday was 10,800+.

Lotso said:

No idea, but I have ridden SX later in the season and with less snow under it. My guess is staff

Click to expand...

Yes, staff. I understand Sug's actual HR department actually ran the lift one weekend recently.

Lotso said:

Yeah, SBX would have been nice in order to grab a ride on CR without dealing with the base area of LP.

Click to expand...

or the LP parking traffic jam that hindered the shuttles to run on any kind of schedule. Crazy,

thetrailboss said:

I think that may be an optimistic forecast. The forces that ended ASC and others don't seem to be a factor for Vail or Alterra. Yet at least. The latter is also completely private so they have more control. The industry has consolidated far much more than in the 1990's and early 2000's. As long as the discount multi-mountain season pass product is the driving force in the market, these two will remain.

Click to expand...

One can hope though. Right?

Hawk said:

One can hope though. Right?

Click to expand...

Yep.

I did the shuttle twice this year for the first time, it was great. gun to my head I'd rather have the slidebrook but the shuttle is a great option. took me maybe 15 minutes total time each way. one trip on a sunday, the other last friday.

and i mean its run awesome- on the 15's at ME and on the halfs at LP. like clockwork.

now, could there be issues during a heavy snowstorm or on the busiest day of the year? Sure! Where wouldn't there be such issues?

Hawk said:

That went through a process that took 2 years to just relocate one section of an existing trail and add snowmaking. What do you think the process would be to cut new trails in areas deamed critical habitat?

Click to expand...

Wont happen...

Ouch. With the potential for foot of snow next week, Ellen closing, bad timing for them:

For us to maintain the construction schedule and have the new quad ready for you next season, we must begin construction this Monday, April 1, which means this Sunday, March 31 will be the last day for the four-decades old Heaven’s Gate Triple. Yes, we know we just got a great shot of snow. And yes, we know the Totality is only 12 days away. But there are about a million moving parts when it comes to installing a new quad chair, and we need to ensure we have enough time to properly do the work so the new chair spins when the snow falls next season.
The closing and subsequent moving of heavy machinery, and transportation and construction of materials also requires us to close some other parts of the mountain to maintain the required safety perimeter. As such, we will be closing the Castlerock Double after this weekend along with all the terrain skier’s-left of Lower Organgrinder including Downspout, Domino, parts of Lower Jester and Heaven’s Gate Traverse, and Gondolier.
We know it’s a bummer to see this terrain close a couple weeks early, but we promise it will absolutely be worth it when we’re all flying to the top of Lincoln Peak in a new quad next season. So come on up this weekend and take a few last rides on the Heaven’s Gate Triple! The ol’ dog put in an incredible career these past 40 years and well deserves its incoming retirement.

Killington continuing to get the crowds

How is there not more than 5 days notice? This obviously had to have been planned. Keep Ellen open week or two longer? Weird.