The "Sugarbush Thread"

I don’t know who wants to hear this but with the amount of snow last week and the forecast for next week I bet their schedule is already blown.

Anyone planning to see the eclipse in Vermont doesn’t know climatology.

Also, Jackson Hole went an entire season without their tram during the upgrade.

Smellytele said:

But it comes down to they knew before and didn’t just decided on the 4/1 date!

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And if they announced this back probably months ago when they signed the contract with Dopp and likely had a construction timeline schedule in hand, then they'd have months/weeks of internet trolls complaining about how their entitlement is being taken away due to the reality of construction deadlines to finish, what in the bigger picture is a much more significant thing (the new HG lift) on time. They announce now (yup, they certanly could of handled it better, no question about it) and a small number of online folks will rant for a few days, and then the hub bub goes away, and the Sugarbush masses, not the online rabid fans, are none the wiser.

Happened to me and us Mount Snow regulars 2 years ago when they quickly announced that due to construction timelines for the work roads and taking down of the old lifts prior to the new Sundance 6 and Sunbrook 4, that they were shutting down a significant portion of the Main Face a few weeks prior to the typical time they would. That was dropped on those of us still skiing at the mountain at that point of the season a week or so prior to it happening. It sucked. We dealt with it. We had new lifts that were a big upgrade over what was there before. And the on mountain experience improved over that relatively speaking minor inconvenience.

So many AZ'ers aren't the typical skier/rider, and the perspective that we bring, sometimes doesn't always align with the reality of the situation at hand from an operations reality standpoint.

all of these discussions are valid. the one thing that Sugarbush has going for it was to plan for skiing a few weeks longer at Mount Ellen. I don't know exactly what kind of logistics that entails, but it certainly seems doable with some planning.

Zermatt said:

I don’t know who wants to hear this but with the amount of snow last week and the forecast for next week I bet their schedule is already blown.

Anyone planning to see the eclipse in Vermont doesn’t know climatology.

Also, Jackson Hole went an entire season without their tram during the upgrade.

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Guessing the construction timeline won't be affected too much. Guessing there will also be a plethora of snowcats and bulldozers on the mountain clearing the work roads they will need. Those machines WILL be able to get through what fell last weekend and *hopefully* next week, with out issue.

Eclipse wise, I agree! Historically it's sunny/clear in Northern VT on April 8th 20% of the time. It was sunny and about 70 last April 8th (I remember having a GREAT day at Stowe skiing bumps and getting a good goggle tan on April 8th). It will get dark around 3:30PM on April 8th in Northern VT, just not guessing many, if any, will get to see the corona that the eclipse will provide if there was clear viewing. I will be in VT on April 8th. If the forecast on the 7th looks favorable for viewing on the 8th, I will drive North to experience it. If not, I'll save the driving and ski in Southern or Central VT that day

Today's report (and yesterday's): **North Ridge will be delayed this morning due to maintenance**

Delayed until it is replaced down the road.

thetrailboss said:

View attachment 62198Well, a friend of AZ has weighed in. If you challenge him, know that he will ban you from his little group.

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I just can’t anymore. If they stop work because of some birds, I just can’t.

Cheetah440 said:

I just can’t anymore. If they stop work because of some birds, I just can’t.

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Oh they literally do. Above a certain elevation there's a limited amount/type of work that can be done from I believe mid-May until sometime in the summer. That's already outlined in the permit paperwork. So tree-cutting for example all needs to be done before mid-May.

Looks like my evil plan is working. LOL by next year no one will be skiing sugarbush HA HA HA

Keep it up people. Fire away.

cdskier said:

Oh they literally do. Above a certain elevation there's a limited amount/type of work that can be done from I believe mid-May until sometime in the summer. That's already outlined in the permit paperwork. So tree-cutting for example all needs to be done before mid-May.

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That is true. Also why they HAVE to start the construction timeline when they do. They simply have to get a specific amount of the work done involving any clearing, demo of the old lift, terminal and tower pad site prep for the new lift, before the State mandated work stoppage for alpine environment animal breeding season.

Whether or not that is overkill? Fully open for debate and I am guessing that the fully environmentalist side thinks that no construction, ever, should take place and the full on "get the government out of my way" side thinks that this is just malarky. As a result, you get the "balance" that you have, and the resort and lift manufacturer and installation companies have to deal with the set guidelines to get the job done.

If one has never actually looked at an ACT 250 document for a lift installation, it's got so many details in it about everything from how many trees will needed to be cleared to water run off mitigation during construction times, to impact on local wildlife, to the amount of estimated earth moving that will need to be done over the course of the construction, and of course the technical specs of the new lift. Likely makes many a lawyer and various engineers a decent amount of $$ in the prepping and filing of the document to the state

drjeff said:

And if they announced this back probably months ago when they signed the contract with Dopp and likely had a construction timeline schedule in hand, then they'd have months/weeks of internet trolls complaining about how their entitlement is being taken away due to the reality of construction deadlines to finish, what in the bigger picture is a much more significant thing (the new HG lift) on time. They announce now (yup, they certanly could of handled it better, no question about it) and a small number of online folks will rant for a few days, and then the hub bub goes away, and the Sugarbush masses, not the online rabid fans, are none the wiser.

Happened to me and us Mount Snow regulars 2 years ago when they quickly announced that due to construction timelines for the work roads and taking down of the old lifts prior to the new Sundance 6 and Sunbrook 4, that they were shutting down a significant portion of the Main Face a few weeks prior to the typical time they would. That was dropped on those of us still skiing at the mountain at that point of the season a week or so prior to it happening. It sucked. We dealt with it. We had new lifts that were a big upgrade over what was there before. And the on mountain experience improved over that relatively speaking minor inconvenience.

So many AZ'ers aren't the typical skier/rider, and the perspective that we bring, sometimes doesn't always align with the reality of the situation at hand from an operations reality standpoint.

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SB sold lift tickets (TBD) good only after that date for a discount to get people to buy them without saying why they were doing it. If they would have said why less people would have bought them. Was it a coincidence?
Also 2 wrongs don't make it right. Mt Snow skiers had a right to be pissed off as well and should have been even being Mt Snow apologists. CDskier isn't happy with SB doing it.

Hawk said:

So the whole saga of the Slidebrook lift and the developement on the that entiere flank and basin goes back to Les Otten days. There were several deals cut with the State and US forest service that shaped what was done. Because of concerns about the bear habitat, the human impact on the terrain, erosion and water concerns, I think it will be a hard sell to cut more trails on the south facing aspect. The lift and the skier access we have now was a long negotiation. I strongly doubt we will see any changes soon. You have to understand were the whole thing before making broad statements about the development. It's simply not that simple. ;-)

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Hawk, that is exactly correct. Les gave away the ability to do anything more in the Basin.

djd66 said:

Does anyone know if they are still doing the Lincoln Limo rental? In the past you could rent it for the day at Ellen when it closes. If they get a dump that would be very cool - especially considering how much of a base they have.

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Yes

Zermatt said:

I don’t know who wants to hear this but with the amount of snow last week and the forecast for next week I bet their schedule is already blown.

Anyone planning to see the eclipse in Vermont doesn’t know climatology.

Also, Jackson Hole went an entire season without their tram during the upgrade.

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True on JHMR during tram replacement, but correct me if I'm wrong, they put in a temporary chair to the top of rendezvous, no?

crippity said:

Win. I average 7-10 days a year last 30 years on and off. I am hire

honestly I found it mind blowing. Would. Love to hear Win perspective since he is only one that gives us current info. Win?

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Honestly, I am not in the know on this and have not really been in touch the past few months but am around more now. I did know that HG would likely close the end of March but had not thought through what other trail closures might be necessary, so I am not sure why CR and the other trails will be. In addition to the lift construction issues there is a window environmentally where things have to occur because of the Bicknell Thrush and others Creatures. There is a plan to level out the top which will require blasting and that will have to occur during a limited time frame I belIeve. As far as communication, I agree that this is not good to have such short term notice. But I am not going to criticize until I know all the facts. There were permitted issues that had to be overcome. Primarily ACT 250. For instance, there is a wet area to the left of the bottom terminal and if that is deemed wetlands in might impact the design and the placement of the terminal and that might have impacted the start date. What I am saying is there may not have been certainly until recently to know the details of the construction schedule. But I am only guessing here. I never like to guess motivation or judge actions until I know the facts.

With respect to Mount Ellen we made the decision 15 years ago to close at the end of March. At the time it was an economical decision. We saw a huge drop off in skier visits at the end of March and it was very costly to keep both mountains open after that. LP more than handled the volume we were seeing. Of course, not everyone was happy about that and I fielded a lot of emails and call and read Alpine Zone, but back then that was the right decision that allowed up to have the free cash to continue making necessary improvements. That of course has changed with Ikon And the skier volume has increased and lasting longer. However, now the issue I believe is more about staffing. I know that the last couple of days of my ownership, as the J-1’s were leaving we were counting the days until we could move remaining staff from ME to LP, and we used members of various departments to fill in with ticket checking and some other activities. You can not just put someone on lift operations without some training. In the early days I was allowed to man the top terminal of the old Valley House.

Like all who have commented, I am bummed with the conditions being what they are, the possible new snow next week and the solar eclipse that the upper mountain is out for the count. But with this as the given reality I am planning on enjoying some of my other favorite trails and try to get to 100 days as I am far behind my usual days.

Cheetah440 said:

I just can’t anymore. If they stop work because of some birds, I just can’t.

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Calling BenedictGomez….

Cheetah440 said:

I just can’t anymore. If they stop work because of some birds, I just can’t.

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If? It's been going on for decades!

Being old enough that I probably don't remember what I just ate for breakfast , I cant recall when or how I first learned that heavens gate would be closing around the first of April to start demolition but I was under the impression that it has been fairly common knowledge around the mountain for at least the last month or so .

This sucks.
Can someone please explain why they have to close castlerock even if the only access is from North lynx via the cr connection?
Also, the mountain and the valley are sold out for the eclipse weekend. they should run the gmx/summit even nif they can't staff the lodge/food.

HowieT2 said:

This sucks.
Can someone please explain why they have to close castlerock even if the only access is from North lynx via the cr connection?
Also, the mountain and the valley are sold out for the eclipse weekend. they should run the gmx/summit even nif they can't staff the lodge/food.

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Just a hunch, that it likely has to do with them probably using Castlerock Runout for a work road, and then they won't want anyone who isn't supposed to be in the area in/around the liftline for the current HG triple as they start taking the chairs off the haul rope and taking the haul rope and com lines off the towers and then possibly dropping the towers if they aren't planning on flying them out, so that would have them not wanting anyone exiting the CR pod via Bailout either.

It's likely not that much different for the reasoning why they don't want anyone, who isn't authorized to be there, on a trail when a winchcat is actively winching, 100% safety reasons. Short term inconvenience for a long term upgrade situation

Weekend of April 6-7 is shaping up to be really busy. There's the potential for decent snow that week, the Valley is sold out for the eclipse, it's Pride Weekend and the PSIA is running their Spring Rally. All on half a hill. Oh, and the Wonderbar is closed for the season. The harmonic convergence of crowded.