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The "Sugarbush Thread"

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What I don't get is how the virus is any different in VT than in MA? If I have been quarantined in my house for the past 9 weeks in MA why do I need to do 2 weeks if I go to VT? I'm not talking about doing anything different in VT than I would do in MA. I can play golf in MA, why can i not play in VT before 14 days? Why can I not go to the market with a mask on like I would in MA?

Having lived in the MRV full time for many years and still have a home and good friends there, the out of state xenophobia has really escalated as Laser said. My friends are divided about it between safety and the economy and the right of a property owner to occupy their property. The out of stater disdain has always been there, but now public safety gives everyone an excuse. Would be curious to know the breakdown and % of primary and second home owners that contribute to the MRV Relief fund.
 

JimG.

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Fear is a terrible thing.

I get the fear. But basing it on the color of a license plate is "racism".

More and more I'm leaning towards a NY ski pass only this upcoming season. I don't go skiing to deal with fear, anger, and stereotyping. Pretty funny to say being that I'm going to limit my skiing to NY only!

I'm guessing that in the 21-22 season states that shun out of staters will be BEGGING them to return because the industry and those states are hurting for revenue.
 

djd66

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Has anyone with out of state plates been up to the MRV recently? I would be curious to hear of any first hand accounts and if you felt unwelcome or unsafe.
 

icecoast1

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I get the fear. But basing it on the color of a license plate is "racism"..

Yup, also pretty misinformed an ignorant as many parts of NY have the same low ( or lower) case rates as Vermont but people see the yellow plates and automatically assume you are from NYC. Maybe these people should just stay inside for the next year until we get a vaccine or herd immunity
 

BenedictGomez

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It's becoming very aggravating.

My wife (Vermonter) hasn't seen her family in months now, usually we go to Vermont quite a bit, and has a new little niece she'd like to see to boot. I would understand completely if the science backed things up, but Vermont is basically being anti-science now with how ridiculous they're taking this. They can come HERE to NJ easier than we can go THERE to VT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Assuming what I read on here's correct it arguably stricter up there than here in my rural NJ county, which has the same number of people dead as in the entire state of Vermont. Again, I go on what I read here (limited base of Vermont posters), but if it's accurate it sounds like State of Vermont is approaching Salem Witch Trials levels of lunacy. More people die from flu/pneumonia per year in Vermont than the 54 people who've died from COVID19 thus far for heaven's sake.
 

slatham

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So I finally came up Thursday, heading back tomorrow. I’ve been in stay at home mode since mid-March. 14 day added quarantine in VT before going to any store, grocery, gas, restaurant etc? Stupid. We are well attuned to masks, social distancing, etc and have been beyond safe (and well).

But given all the unmasked VT locals at hardware stores and grocery stores and a walk up pizza window (!) we saw as we drove by I think our plan of not going anywhere (wide ski trail hiking the exception) worked in our favor. But the local businesses lost a bit (more) business.

Beautiful weekend up here.

Stay safe.
 

Smellytele

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To argue against VT’s lockdown by saying NJ is more lenient then VT and NJ has more deaths in a rural county is rather stupid. This is the exact reason they don’t want people traveling to their state which may cause more cases. How is this so hard to understand?
Do I 100% agree with them? No but it isn’t my state so I have no say in the matter nor do most of you.


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BenedictGomez

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To argue against VT’s lockdown by saying NJ is more lenient then VT and NJ has more deaths in a rural county is rather stupid. This is the exact reason they don’t want people traveling to their state which may cause more cases. How is this so hard to understand?Do I 100% agree with them? No but it isn’t my state so I have no say in the matter nor do most of you.

It's not, and the answer is you're not following the science & math involved as well as the fact you didnt pay attention to the fact I specifically posted about "my rural NJ county" (i.e. not a COVID19 hotbed).

I'll skip the lockdown science & math as it's been beaten to death already on threads here whether some choose to listen to it or instead subscribe to the media fear-mongering; but as for my hills & horse farms pocket of NJ, in my rural NJ county our death rate while worse than Vermont isn't terribly horrific. We're one of the least affected counties in NJ, and over 1/2 of our deaths occurred in a state prison via people who arent even from the county. It's pretty obvious & frustrating that many Americans havent figured out that every state in America isnt NY or NJ, but they also havent figured out that much of NY and NJ isnt the "NY and NJ" they're hearing about on television (thank god).
 

Smellytele

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It's not, and the answer is you're not following the science & math involved as well as the fact you didnt pay attention to the fact I specifically posted about "my rural NJ county" (i.e. not a COVID19 hotbed).

I'll skip the lockdown science & math as it's been beaten to death already on threads here whether some choose to listen to it or instead subscribe to the media fear-mongering; but as for my hills & horse farms pocket of NJ, in my rural NJ county our death rate while worse than Vermont isn't terribly horrific. We're one of the least affected counties in NJ, and over 1/2 of our deaths occurred in a state prison via people who arent even from the county. It's pretty obvious & frustrating that many Americans havent figured out that every state in America isnt NY or NJ, but they also havent figured out that much of NY and NJ isnt the "NY and NJ" they're hearing about on television (thank god).

So your non hot bed small county has more deaths than all of VT and is more lenient? Do I have that part right?
Not saying anything about the science that you know everything about.


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BenedictGomez

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So your non hot bed small county has more deaths than all of VT and is more lenient? Do I have that part right?

It has fewer deaths. And if you adjust it with ex-State prison figures as one should, it has < 1/2 the deaths.

Of course, that's not logical as you need to adjust it for population, then it has about 2.5x more deaths than Vermont. Guess what? That's still fairly trivial as Vermont has only about 1 COVID19 death per 12,000 people, which gets us back to the main point regarding Vermont taking lockdown regulations over-the-top. Vermont's COVID19 death rate is lower than Vermont's annual influenza/pneumonia death rate. I genuinely wonder how many Vermonters are aware of that? My guess is not many.
 

deadheadskier

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My personal experience with a few VT hospitals has been this:

In the early onset of Covid, they actually admitted way more people than they should have. They did get pretty busy with brief hospitalizations, just not ICU level care. There wasn't a strong enough playbook 6-8 weeks ago, so anyone with a diagnosis and even moderate symptoms spent a night or three in the hospital because there was fear these folks would quickly crash hard and end up on a vent. My company actually supplied a couple dozen vents to the state in early April because what they got from the National stockpile was garbage. I had a lot of daily conversations with medical leaders at these hospitals who were totally freaked out then. Capital expenditure decisions that typically take months to a year were green lighted in hours.

Fast forward to today and those same medical leaders who were freaked out are now pretty calm and understanding that while this virus can be downright deadly for a very small percentage of people; for the most part it is manageable and VT isn't at risk of getting overwhelmed.

Seems to me the caution in moving forward towards normal now is more about fear of litigation and political fallout than actual deadly statistics.

That's not to minimize 100k people dying. That's not to minimize my own concern that I could become infected and be unlucky with my own immune response. While minimal, healthy people in their 40s like me have died from this virus. I'll take many precautions during my work activities visiting ICUs around New England all week. I'm in no rush to hang in a packed music club anytime soon, but I'm not freaked out carrying on 90+% of my typical life activities. I'll wear a mask in a store no problem. I won't shake hands and I'll wash my own frequently.

The 14 day quarantine BS needs to stop though. All 50 states should rapidly open. Let consumers, businesses and employees decide their personal risk tolerance.

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Keelhauled

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Again, I go on what I read here (limited base of Vermont posters), but if it's accurate it sounds like State of Vermont is approaching Salem Witch Trials levels of lunacy.
Oh bullshit, you know not of what you speak. The state has been gradually opening back up for weeks now. Most businesses are open in some fashion, with the major exceptions of restaurant dining rooms and barbershops/salons/similar. As for the former, outdoor dining is now allowed, and the latter will be reopening on Friday. Unfortunately but understandably, the summer fairs have been canceled. Otherwise I expect the state will be mostly back to normal, albeit with a lot of curbside transactions, in the next month or so.
 

BenedictGomez

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Oh bullshit, you know not of what you speak. The state has been gradually opening back up for weeks now. Most businesses are open in some fashion, with the major exceptions of restaurant dining rooms and barbershops/salons/similar. As for the former, outdoor dining is now allowed, and the latter will be reopening on Friday. Unfortunately but understandably, the summer fairs have been canceled. Otherwise I expect the state will be mostly back to normal, albeit with a lot of curbside transactions, in the next month or so.

This is the same state with about 50 total deaths in 625,000 people, right? Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I'm speaking about, but thanks for confirming.
 

Keelhauled

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This is the same state with about 50 total deaths in 625,000 people, right? Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I'm speaking about, but thanks for confirming.


I don't know what to tell you. My life has changed only to the extent that I carry a mask in my truck for when I go grocery shopping. Otherwise it is the same as it ever was, as is true for everyone I know. Being considered an essential worker means that my employment has stayed constant, so that colors my experience a bit, but the Salem Witch Trials these are not. If you would rather us walk away entirely from everything that has kept the state largely unscathed so far, please feel free to keep yourself and your stupid ideas in New Jersey.
 

dustyroads

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I guess we can assume that those Vermonters who yap about people coming into their state never have or never will travel outside of Vermont.
 

Smellytele

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I guess we can assume that those Vermonters who yap about people coming into their state never have or never will travel outside of Vermont.

This is so off mark right now. At this moment they probably are not leaving VT but they don’t want people from states that have higher numbers than they have coming to their state.


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skiur

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Vermont will have to return to normal soon, it's economy cannot survive without tourism and most of those tourists are from the NY and Boston areas. They can't have their cake and eat it too, the economy wouldn't survive.
 

NYDB

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Vermont will have to return to normal soon, it's economy cannot survive without tourism and most of those tourists are from the NY and Boston areas. They can't have their cake and eat it too, the economy wouldn't survive.

I don't know if that's the case. There may already be a bunch of NY and MA people up there riding out the summer in their second homes since camps, schools have canceled and WFH is the new normal for awhile.

anecdotally, I know several friends who have been 'up north' since March with their families. That doesn't help hotels, B&B's etc. but I've heard trails, golf courses and mountains have been packed.
 

BenedictGomez

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If you would rather us walk away entirely from everything that has kept the state largely unscathed so far, please feel free to keep yourself and your stupid ideas in New Jersey.

What you think has "kept the state largely unscathed" has not done so; correlation does not imply causation.

The world is starting to figure this out & it will be widely known before too long despite politicians of both domestic parties & various international nations telling you otherwise to protect their self-interest.

The lockdown versus non-lockdown data are too disparate, the results too widely varied, and with little cohesiveness of outcome effectiveness in either direction. Lockdown has done little else but harm lives & wreck global economies.
 
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flakeydog

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This is the same state with about 50 total deaths in 625,000 people, right?

Yeah- that's right. Were you hoping for more?

This did not happen by accident, Vermont is doing the right thing and continues to do so. We could have been Corona-central up here had we not taken the measures we did (and continue to). Sorry the caution tape is still up on what you (and 100,000 of your friends) view as your personal amusement park. We still have to live up here.

I hear Lake of the Ozarks is very nice this time of year. Their philosophy on business and social distance there seems more in line with yours.
 
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