The "Sugarbush Thread"

deadheadskier · Jan 21, 2019

Put me in the camp of leaving plenty of natural snow trails alone. I wouldn't groom them period.

As for season length, Sugarbush has always been about top 5 for the past 10 years or so. In recent memory K is always last man standing in New England. The other players being Jay, Bush, Wildcat, Sugarloaf and Sunday River

Hard to complain about that.

Overall I think Sugarbush has struck a pretty good balance between modernizing infrastructure and amenities while still maintaining the classic feel it is known for. I used to be a huge Stowe homer and a long time pass holder there. If I still lived in NVT today, Bush would get my pass business.

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benski · Jan 21, 2019

Semi-tough should be groomed regularly? Its excellent with moguls. When I ski it, it often has great easy bump lines and good snow. Its a good gateway into mogul skiing.

MorningWoods · Jan 22, 2019

benski said:
Semi-tough should be groomed regularly? Its excellent with moguls. When I ski it, it often has great easy bump lines and good snow. Its a good gateway into mogul skiing.

+1. Same for lower domino and moonshine. Good to have those trails for newbie bump training.

If win ever decides to expand that terrain above Inverness. I hope it’s kept natural. Maybe some wide glades. A few skinny natural trails. Not sure what the terrain is like in there. Never skied those trees.

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benski · Jan 22, 2019

MorningWoods said:
+1. Same for lower domino and moonshine. Good to have those trails for newbie bump training.

If win ever decides to expand that terrain above Inverness. I hope it’s kept natural. Maybe some wide glades. A few skinny natural trails. Not sure what the terrain is like in there. Never skied those trees.

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I would like to see a new race course so GMVS never has to obstruct a unused trail for the course.

Krikaya · Jan 22, 2019

Thanks Trailboss for speaking out about cost cutting at Sugarbush. Your experience and knowledge gives you the right to ask these questions and your tone is perfectly civil. I've often thought the same things about SB, but I don't have the history with the area like you do so I refrain from commenting.

Nothing draws the fanboys out like a criticism or even a factual or constructive comment about their favorite mountain. They lose all perspective but it's nice to see you've maintained an objective perspective.

Keep it up.

Hawk · Jan 22, 2019

I find that as the years go by I have less and less to complain about. As everybody knows I would love more snow making on the cold days on the work horse trails so that we have something to ski after a rain event. I'm not going to critique the system that much any more because it is what it is. They have a plan and that is what they have. I now understand more since I know more people that actually work the system. It's pretty much all good and they fight the battles they can fight.

As for cost, I am just not that cheap. I do not see value in chasing bargains or limiting my skiing because of cost. I buy my pass, get a MRG 3 pack and the SkiVT 4 pack and I am good to go for60 days a year. Hell my pass this year included early ups and it was the same cost as my pass 3 years ago without the early ups. My cost actually went down! I realize that there are people that have cost constraints. Its an expensive sport if you only go day by day and want to go to lots of mountains. There are options for that with all the different group passes and discount vouchers. You can always find an option you like if you look hard enough. But I am not going to bitch about SB and what I get. It's a special place that I have grown to call my home and Win is actually doing a pretty good job right now I think.

skiur · Jan 22, 2019

Smellytele said:
If there is natural snow

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Well of course that......which is why snowmaking is much less important in northern Vermont mountains than more southern locations.

Krikaya · Jan 22, 2019

Please enlighten me, Hawk. Do you actually believe all these cliched, sycophantic things you write? I'll have more respect for you if WinS actually pays you to write this nonsense. Nobody could actually believe this.

t's pretty much all good and they fight the battles they can fight.

it is what it is

It's a special place that I have grown to call my home and Win is actually doing a pretty good job right now I think.

They have a plan and that is what they have.

You gotta work on your turd polishing. You're not fooling anyone except the other fanboys.

Hawk · Jan 22, 2019

It's simple. I pay my cost, ski a ton and get more then my fair share of untracked pow. Probably more untracked than about 95% of the other paying customers. I am there 50 or so days a year and have a ton of like minded friends. We have a blast. The costs I pay compared to Stowe, Killington, Sugarloaf, Sunday River and other comparative sized resorts are lower and it is my opinion that my experience is better here. I used to relentlessly harp on Win about all the things I did not like. Just go back into the history. It was mostly snowmaking. We had our debate, I did some research and got the facts from past and present mountain ops people, and now I do understand more about why they do the things they do. It is not Sunday River or Killington, it will never be and that is not what they are trying to do. If you want to call me a fanboy then great. I have just given up being totally negative all the time. Why, because I have no reason to. This last weekend was a good example. I skied down to the lift from my condo, skied like 6 slide brooks untracked and then ripped up all around the mountain for the rest of the afternoon. Why should I be angry or have any issues with that? and all I ask is for them to blow snow the day after a rain storm. That's it. Pretty simple.
But mostly, I think that I have grown up enough to know that I do not want to be a total asshole all the time. It's really hard work to work up that much negative energy.

machski · Jan 22, 2019

I really like Sugarbush as is. Skied it last Thursday before the storm and had a great time on just South (too cold for Slidebrook and didn't want to waste time on the bus). My only disappointment was the end of day TTB run on Organgrinder. Upper wasn't sure whether it wanted to be a bump run or not but not bad. Lower was a groomer but a lot of blue ice groomer. While a limited example, I seriously doubt the blower snow we got with wind after has helped that situation much. So in that example, a bit more snowmaking to help dress out these types of conditions would be nice on groomed runs.

Hawk, unfortunately I believe Thursday and Friday they will get a chance to try and meet your ask.

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ThinkSnow · Jan 22, 2019

Krikaya said:
I don't have the history with the area like you do so I refrain from commenting.

This.

Click to expand...

Krikaya · Jan 22, 2019

ThinkSnow said:
Krikaya said:

I don't have the history with the area like you do so I refrain from commenting.

This.

Click to expand...

Point taken. I should have said, I refrain from commenting ABOUT SUGARBUSH.

My beef is when knowledgeable people comment about issues at any mountain, they immediately get attacked by fanboys. Trailboss is raising some perfectly valid questions about decisions made at the mountain. There's nothing wrong with raising these issues. It's called constructive criticism. Every mountain has it's fanboys and fanboys all wear rose colored glasses. And fanboys try to stifle debate and label anyone who differs with their opinion as negative.

And to be fair to Sugarbush, it has amazing terrain and caters to a certain type of skier. I would assume it's the type of skier that goes to MRG as well.

Click to expand...

WWF-VT · Jan 22, 2019

Krikaya said:
ThinkSnow said:

Krikaya said:

I don't have the history with the area like you do so I refrain from commenting.

Point taken. I should have said, I refrain from commenting ABOUT SUGARBUSH.

My beef is when knowledgeable people comment about issues at any mountain, they immediately get attacked by fanboys. Trailboss is raising some perfectly valid questions about decisions made at the mountain. There's nothing wrong with raising these issues. It's called constructive criticism. Every mountain has it's fanboys and fanboys all wear rose colored glasses. And fanboys try to stifle debate and label anyone who differs with their opinion as negative.

And to be fair to Sugarbush, it has amazing terrain and caters to a certain type of skier. I would assume it's the type of skier that goes to MRG as well.

Click to expand...

Trailboss has also noted that the last time he was a regular at Sugarbush was in 2011...

Click to expand...

thetrailboss · Jan 22, 2019

WWF-VT said:
Krikaya said:

ThinkSnow said:

Trailboss has also noted that the last time he was a regular at Sugarbush was in 2011...

Click to expand...

But I have been keeping tabs on the place and have a long history with it. You certainly know that. And I'm pretty sure we've met a few times.

Click to expand...

HowieT2 · Jan 22, 2019

Krikaya said:
ThinkSnow said:

Krikaya said:

I don't have the history with the area like you do so I refrain from commenting.

Point taken. I should have said, I refrain from commenting ABOUT SUGARBUSH.

My beef is when knowledgeable people comment about issues at any mountain, they immediately get attacked by fanboys. Trailboss is raising some perfectly valid questions about decisions made at the mountain. There's nothing wrong with raising these issues. It's called constructive criticism. Every mountain has it's fanboys and fanboys all wear rose colored glasses. And fanboys try to stifle debate and label anyone who differs with their opinion as negative.

And to be fair to Sugarbush, it has amazing terrain and caters to a certain type of skier. I would assume it's the type of skier that goes to MRG as well.

Click to expand...

TRailboss has been complaining on the message boards about SB since he decamped for the SB on the left coast.

As for your comments, what "turd" are you talking about? not making snow on upper exterminator? I've been skiing sugarbush and mt ellen pretty consistently for the last decade or so, and I can't imagine anyone who honestly believes the lack of snowmaking on upper exterminator is a big issue, either way. Don't get me wrong, I love upper exterminator. One of my faves, but its just not a big deal.

AS for the snowmaking in general, I dont want to rehash this insufferable debate, but for me, sugarbush has a solidly long season. Its not the first to open or last to close, but its open pretty consistently from thanksgiving to the first weekend in May. This compares well to the other east coast areas not called sunday river or killington. and from what I've seen from killington is, they open with wrod a week or 2 before sugarbush. whoop de damned do. they do stay open later but really there is barely anyone skiing in May let alone April for that matter.

If you want to make complaints about the mountain operations, have at it. I've got some of my own. I think the prices in the cafeteria have gotten a little out of whack and the burgers are not what they used to be. I wish they would expand/update the valley house and glen house. I wish they didnt remove the glove/boot dryers from the gatehouse. I wish they would add some more trees to murphys. I wish the CRP was open for football games and the superbowl. I can go on. But to whine about how they dont spend money on mtn operations because there's no longer snow making on upper exterminator, is just silly.

Click to expand...

thetrailboss · Jan 22, 2019

HowieT2 said:
Krikaya said:

ThinkSnow said:

TRailboss has been complaining on the message boards about SB since he decamped for the SB on the left coast.

Click to expand...

I disagree. Have I offered constructive criticism? Yes, of course. I have always supported Sugarbush as you know (or I thought you knew). If you disagree with me that's fine. I prefer keep the focus on the issues raised.

Click to expand...

ThinkSnow · Jan 22, 2019

Wow, I seem to be getting a lot of quotes incorrectly attributed to me.....

cdskier · Jan 22, 2019

thetrailboss said:
But I have been keeping tabs on the place and have a long history with it. You certainly know that. And I'm pretty sure we've met a few times.

Having a long history and knowing what happened in the past is fine. But for someone that has supposedly been keeping tabs on it you seem to have a lot of inaccurate information and seem to have missed an awful lot since you left. In the past 5 years alone there has been a rather significant investment of capital on mountain infrastructure. I really can't say I would have done anything substantially different if I was the one making decisions on where to spend money. There's really nothing they've done on the mountain that I can think of offhand that I would say should have been skipped in favor of something else.

thetrailboss said:
I disagree. Have I offered constructive criticism? Yes, of course. I have always supported Sugarbush as you know (or I thought you knew). If you disagree with me that's fine. I prefer keep the focus on the issues raised.

What issues? The perceived ones being raised by someone over two thousand miles away about a lack of snowmaking on Ext/Bravo and a lack of weekly grooming of Walt's and Semi-Tough? I don't know anyone that skis here that thinks either of those are issues. There have already been numerous people posting in this thread stating they prefer the way things are now. Just because something was done a certain way in the past doesn't mean it was the right way to do it back then. Just because a change may also coincidentally cost less doesn't mean that drove the decision or that it was the wrong decision. I'm generally very happy with the way Ext, Bravo, Walt's and Semi-tough all ski with the way they are currently handled by mountain ops.

If there are any real issues to raise, I think they would be some of the ones Howie mentioned. Those actually have merit.

HowieT2 · Jan 22, 2019

thetrailboss said:
HowieT2 said:

Krikaya said:

I disagree. Have I offered constructive criticism? Yes, of course. I have always supported Sugarbush as you know (or I thought you knew). If you disagree with me that's fine. I prefer keep the focus on the issues raised.

Click to expand...

that was meant in kind of a joking way, which I realize in retrospect didnt translate well to text. I apologize. It wasnt meant to offend.

Click to expand...

HowieT2 · Jan 22, 2019

cdskier said:
Having a long history and knowing what happened in the past is fine. But for someone that has supposedly been keeping tabs on it you seem to have a lot of inaccurate information and seem to have missed an awful lot since you left. In the past 5 years alone there has been a rather significant investment of capital on mountain infrastructure. I really can't say I would have done anything substantially different if I was the one making decisions on where to spend money. There's really nothing they've done on the mountain that I can think of offhand that I would say should have been skipped in favor of something else.

What issues? The perceived ones being raised by someone over two thousand miles away about a lack of snowmaking on Ext/Bravo and a lack of weekly grooming of Walt's and Semi-Tough? I don't know anyone that skis here that thinks either of those are issues. There have already been numerous people posting in this thread stating they prefer the way things are now. Just because something was done a certain way in the past doesn't mean it was the right way to do it back then. Just because a change may also coincidentally cost less doesn't mean that drove the decision or that it was the wrong decision. I'm generally very happy with the way Ext, Bravo, Walt's and Semi-tough all ski with the way they are currently handled by mountain ops.

If there are any real issues to raise, I think they would be some of the ones Howie mentioned. Those actually have merit.

exactly. mac n cheese cups r too small for $8.50! This aggression shall not stand! (I kid)

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