The "Sugarbush Thread"

Hey Tuna,

Not to pile on, but to be clear, you can ski Bolton and Burke for less than you can at SB, but it's not the same overall package.

I love BV. That's where my kids learned to ski. Had a fantastic ski day there this past President's Day weekend. But there is a major difference in snowmaking, grooming, facilities, lifts, etc. etc.

To some, that might not matter at all. But to others, it's a big deal.

bdfreetuna said:

I mainly do go where I can go affordably. Bolton Valley and Burke get a lot of visits from me on that exact point.

I go to S-bush on average 1x a year, I'll probably do so again on a Ski VT pass this spring.

Stand by the point that $129 tickets in Vermont is laughable. It seems like Stowe gets more heat for jacking prices than Sugarbush, I think it's mainly a loyal base of season pass holders here who like to defend S-Bush.

Click to expand...

I also go where I can go affordably. And for me SB normally works out to under $20 a day. Hard to say that is expensive. But I opted to be loyal to a particular resort and was rewarded for that. Like crazy said, I also see no problem with a resort opting to reward their loyal customers instead of ones just looking to ski for nothing a couple times a year.

As for the $129 rate, I tend to think it is a bit high, but I also firmly believe you don't have a lot of people paying that rate anyway so the argument about it is largely pointless. And if your closest competitors/neighbors are charging that rate (or higher) for a walk up day ticket, why should you be substantially cheaper than them?

well not to "come back to the thread" when I said I was gonna leave...

But I can't ski 111 trails in a single day. There's only 25% of terrain at Sugarbush I'm really motivated to even go there occasionally for.

Bolton has many advantages too: 1) no lift lines... 2) park near by... 3) trails are less skied off and more consistent conditions... 4) woods are fresher and more snowfall... 5) facilities aren't crowded for lunch

Burke doesn't have quite the same advantage as Bolton but 1, 2 and 5 certainly as well.

Advantages for Sugarbush? 1) faster lifts (not Castlerock though, and possibility of lines or long lines) ... 2) most would say overall better terrain.

I ski Bolton Valley on average 3x a year so it's a pretty solid decision for me, if it was nearby I might even consider getting a pass. I should stop talking about Bolton probably...

EDIT: CDskier just to get you in here before I try to bounce again... If you are a season pass guy, and happy to pay $1000 or whatever for one mountain to ski 50 times in a season, well good for you, you've got it worked out. Probably some day I'll end up doing the same one way or another. For me 1/2 the excitement in skiing is going to places that feel new, or I've been yearning to return to for a while. Thus I rarely ski any area more than 3-4 times a season, Killington probably gets the most visits from me because of their long season, available discounts, and not being too far away.

So anyway I pay about $400-$500 for tickets a season, get in about 25-30 days, and probably ski 18 different places in a season. Different approach.

Go to Boston Ski Show I'm sure Bolton will be handing out $39 coupons in unlimited quantities.

bdfreetuna said:

well not to "come back to the thread" when I said I was gonna leave...

But I can't ski 111 trails in a single day. There's only 25% of terrain at Sugarbush I'm really motivated to even go there occasionally for.

Bolton has many advantages too: 1) no lift lines... 2) park near by... 3) trails are less skied off and more consistent conditions... 4) woods are fresher and more snowfall... 5) facilities aren't crowded for lunch

Burke doesn't have quite the same advantage as Bolton but 1, 2 and 5 certainly as well.

Advantages for Sugarbush? 1) faster lifts (not Castlerock though, and possibility of lines or long lines) ... 2) most would say overall better terrain.

I ski Bolton Valley on average 3x a year so it's a pretty solid decision for me, if it was nearby I might even consider getting a pass. I should stop talking about Bolton probably...

EDIT: CDskier just to get you in here before I try to bounce again... If you are a season pass guy, and happy to pay $1000 or whatever for one mountain to ski 50 times in a season, well good for you, you've got it worked out. Probably some day I'll end up doing the same one way or another. For me 1/2 the excitement in skiing is going to places that feel new, or I've been yearning to return to for a while. Thus I rarely ski any area more than 3-4 times a season, Killington probably gets the most visits from me because of their long season, available discounts, and not being too far away.

So anyway I pay about $400-$500 for tickets a season, get in about 25-30 days, and probably ski 18 different places in a season. Different approach.

Click to expand...

Tuna,

FWIW, I'm enjoying this conversation so I don't want you to think that I'm being contentious. But...

Bolton (again I love it) has short lift lines, but very slow lifts. Problematic on cold days. Vista seems to be on windhold more than any other lift I've experienced. Plus, Wilderness and Timberline aren't open all the time so the terrain is cut down significantly.

As much as I love SB, I agree that I like to get to MRG, Stowe, BV, Gore as well. Variety is a good thing. One can be a loyal SB skier and try other places.

As to $400-500/year for 25-30 days...that seems to stretch my imagination. Even if you're doing a ton of midweek skiing (not so easy for me), that cost seems light. If you're tracking it accurately and those are your numbers, more power to you.

mikec142 said:

Tuna,

FWIW, I'm enjoying this conversation so I don't want you to think that I'm being contentious. But...

Click to expand...

No worries wasn't taking it any other way

mikec142 said:

Bolton (again I love it) has short lift lines, but very slow lifts. Problematic on cold days. Vista seems to be on windhold more than any other lift I've experienced. Plus, Wilderness and Timberline aren't open all the time so the terrain is cut down significantly.

Click to expand...

Yes very slow lifts, but Castlerock and Madonna 1 aren't hot rods either. I usually ski bell to bell at Bolton and leave very satisfied with my day. Wilderness and Timberline are issues I hope they work on, especially Wilderness which really has no excuse not to be open (it's full elevation after all). Timberline needs a little extra time to open. At least they're pretty clear on the snow report about what to expect. I've never shown up and been surprised in the wrong way.

mikec142 said:

As to $400-500/year for 25-30 days...that seems to stretch my imagination. Even if you're doing a ton of midweek skiing (not so easy for me), that cost seems light. If you're tracking it accurately and those are your numbers, more power to you.

Click to expand...

$180 Ski Vermont = 4 tickets I'll use at the expensive places ie Stowe, Sugarbush, and a couple quick-drive Southern VT days ie Stratton and maybe Bromley because I like it there

$185 MyChamplainValley = 1x each: Burke, Bretton, Gore, Whiteface, Mad River Glen, Smuggs, Magic, probably will ski Middlebury this year

We're up to 12 days and $365... not looking too good! So I get Ride and Ski Card for $30 at the Boston Ski Show and with that probably get 1x Berkshire East pass included.

13 days $395. Let's say I go to Bolton x3 for $112, I'm at 16 days $500. I can do Mt Ellen on a Thursday and be at 17 days for $530. Probably do a couple 1/2 off weekdays at Berkshire East so let's say we're around $600 for 19 days.

Bad math and correct to call me out. Still in the ballpark though. I'll probably do a day or two at Mount Snow and pony up about $48 on those passes too. Can't expect much more than 20 days this season with a kid turning 2 and a lot of commitments.


edit again: my easiest days off this season are going to be Monday, Thursday and Friday... so that helps. Can even do Magic Throwback Thursday and the Cannon cheap Thursday deal

bdfreetuna said:

well not to "come back to the thread" when I said I was gonna leave...

But I can't ski 111 trails in a single day. There's only 25% of terrain at Sugarbush I'm really motivated to even go there occasionally for.

Click to expand...

To be fair, the "I can't ski xxx trails in a single day" comment is pretty irrelevant as it applies to most mid to large resorts. At least I have the choice of which 111 trails I want to ski though. No one bases their prices on how much of their terrain you can ski in a particular day.

Bolton has many advantages too: 1) no lift lines... 2) park near by... 3) trails are less skied off and more consistent conditions... 4) woods are fresher and more snowfall... 5) facilities aren't crowded for lunch

Click to expand...

Considering you said you only ski SB midweek, I don't see how 1, 2, and 5 are considered advantages as you'd have no issues midweek at SB with those either.

EDIT: CDskier just to get you in here before I try to bounce again... If you are a season pass guy, and happy to pay $1000 or whatever for one mountain to ski 50 times in a season, well good for you, you've got it worked out. Probably some day I'll end up doing the same one way or another. For me 1/2 the excitement in skiing is going to places that feel new, or I've been yearning to return to for a while. Thus I rarely ski any area more than 3-4 times a season, Killington probably gets the most visits from me because of their long season, available discounts, and not being too far away.

So anyway I pay about $400-$500 for tickets a season, get in about 25-30 days, and probably ski 18 different places in a season. Different approach.

Click to expand...

I've been there and done that method as well. For me the only real day trip options are the Catskills. VT or Adirondacks require a weekend trip. So right there my costs are going up with that method even if lift tickets were all equally priced across the board. So back when I used to do that, VT resorts (or Gore or Whiteface in NY) were places I'd overall only visit 2-3x per season. I finally decided I'd prefer to "settle down" somewhere. So I picked Sugarbush as it was my favorite out of all places I'd tried and also a place that I felt I wouldn't be easily bored at because of how much it has to offer. No regrets. I love having the flexibility to go whenever I want and not have to worry about searching for lodging (or ticket deals). And I can still do random trips to other places if I want. Technically with a condo by SB I could day trip to quite a few other places (although it is really hard to drive right by SB and drive 1-2 hours somewhere else).

FWIW, my pass is also under $600 because I'm in the "30s" age range. Even when I hit the full price pass in another couple years, I still wouldn't complain about ~$1000 to ski 40+ days.

Costs for skiing are substantial for many people, and dedicated skiers do work to manage the expense. Nonetheless, I wonder if reading individuals on this forum competing back and forth to justify their financial approach to skiing and subjective valuations of different experiences is uninteresting to other people too.

I like Sugarbush plenty, have a pass, etc. But at $129 for a day ticket, I'm never going to invite friends to ski with me. I'd be very reluctant to obligate them to spend so much, and I'd be embarrassed by the cost to value ratio given that I ski enough to know what the "average" weekend day is like. Think Saturday, with the inevitable lift lines, variable weather, ice from eastern thaw-freeze cycles, mobbed lodge where you can't find a place to sit. Sugarbush is nice, but it's not that nice.

I think I have come to the realization that I am not like most of the people on here. I really don't have a season pass to save money although to really do save a lot of money considering I ski 60 days. I have the pass because I want to ski at a place and be part of the culture at the resort. I love the friendships I have gathered and I love skiing and skinning with my friends. I love going to the bar at the end of the day and knowing more than 50% of the people in there. I love the after parties that occur all across the valley every weekend. I love ski in ski out and not having to be in the car all weekend. I love covert missions on skins at night. (don't tell win! ;-) And most of all I love the calmness and the beauty of the area all year round. Mountain Biking and hiking in the summer at just as good as the sking in the winter. Well almost. LOL
I could never be bothered with all the chasing around with vouchers and different mountains. Too much work, too much driving for limited rewards. That's not to say that the SkiVT card and MRV 3 pack is not a purchase I make. I do. But that is just a supplement to what I already have. That's me.

https://www.channel3000.com/news/long-time-vermont-battery-producer-moving-to-wisconsin/1135691036

I wonder if this has anything to do with Vermont being relatively anti-business.

Hawk,

You might not appear to be like most people who are posting pricing on this string, but I'm sure there are a lot who share the same sentiment. They're reading, just not posting.

I'm in your camp for instance - except I skin via Slibebrook so as not to upset the cats on the hill - tho I have winter camped up on NL pod for a 1st thing AM powder run once - shhhhhhhh.

Got friends and other ski houses we hang with, and as much as I like to vist Jay, Magic , Smuggs and NH each year for 4 or 5 days, its the valley and the terrain and the people here - including MRG of course.

at 25-30 days $28-$35 ain't expensive in 2019.

i get the different areas and terrain and exploring new or old terrain.

If all lifts are working, one can avoid lines with the same kind of planning as is used to get deals at other areas - no one is gonna convince me that the upslope and lake effect snows we get that aren't always counted (Bush is now recognized as understating snow fall amounts) don't provide a superior experience to most other Ice Coast areas - maybe with the exception of Jay regarding snow - but not backcountry terrain. Or for that matter regular trails.

Started years ago in NH, then K-Mart and somehow always ended up here more than anywhere else - so we've been staples since '93.


We're happy to have everyone and we're even happier people need other experiences. Choices are a great freedom we sometimes take for granted.

I try not to.

I'm not so sure if any of the people with season passes are saying they do it specifically to save money. That's a bonus of having a pass in my opinion. While I may be saving money on skiing itself with a pass compared to years ago, I'm still overall probably spending the same or more because there are expenses involved with owning a condo. But I love the convenience of having my own place where I can just leave all my stuff and not have to worry about carting it around. And I can use it year-round whenever I want. I personally don't make it up in the non-winter months anywhere near as much as during ski season (it is just much harder to justify a 5 hour drive for summer activities vs skiing in the winter). But I still at least have the option to go anytime I want.

Personally I've never been a big "hang out in the bar for apres" type of person. I'd rather go back to my condo and relax a bit before either cooking a nice dinner or going out somewhere in the valley for dinner. I do love the valley itself and often feel like I know more people up there than I do here at home in NJ. The valley itself was absolutely a factor in why I chose Sugarbush as my "home" mountain. I love the mountain itself, but the surrounding area is pretty much perfect for my tastes. It isn't too commercialized or crowded like some other areas. But there's still plenty of places to go out for a nice dinner or even just a good burger.

Hawk,

Not sure we are that far apart. But probably at different points on the same path. Everything you said resonates deeply with me. Even though we are over five hours away, I consider Sugarbush to be my “home” mountain and I ski there more than anywhere else season after season. There are many reasons for this...even though there are many places to ski that are much closer to home, I make the trek to SB because I find the combination of terrain, friendliness, activities, community and vibe to be unbeatable. However, reality is still very much staring me in the face. Both my wife and I work full time and we have teenage kids with active and diverse social lives. We have two college tuitions coming up in the very near future. Juggling all these factors takes some effort. So while I would love to be able to buy a place or move to the MRV, for now we make do as best as possible with regular trips up there. FWIW, I would go every weekend, but I’m not the only one who has a vote.

So to bring it all together, I’ll be up there on a much more regular basis eventually and in the meantime, I’m going to continue to take advantage of the quad packs that make sense for my situation. Save me a seat at the bar.

I am different than you for sure. I hate skiing with a lot of other people because I hate waiting , I hate skiing trails and ski areas I don’t want to ski. I like variety but do also have a season pass and split my time 50-50. I don’t have to drive more than 2:00 to any ski area I want to ski. I like a good bar but also like variety there as well. Love skinning alone.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

the idea of skiing with other people aside from about 5 friends who rip hard and ski anything is just awful. every time i get roped into a group lodging ski thing, i wind up leaving the group after 1-2 runs tops. i just want to go hard all day non stop on the most challenging terrain available without compromising

KustyTheKlown said:

the idea of skiing with other people aside from about 5 friends who rip hard and ski anything is just awful. every time i get roped into a group lodging ski thing, i wind up leaving the group after 1-2 runs tops. i just want to go hard all day non stop on the most challenging terrain available without compromising

Click to expand...

Ah yes the good old modified powder clause.

"There are no friends on a powder day".

I'm sorry, you must have miss heard me.

"There are no friends on a ski day"!

KustyTheKlown said:

the idea of skiing with other people aside from about 5 friends who rip hard and ski anything is just awful. every time i get roped into a group lodging ski thing, i wind up leaving the group after 1-2 runs tops. i just want to go hard all day non stop on the most challenging terrain available without compromising

Click to expand...

lol you’re so hard core

Hawk said:

I think I have come to the realization that I am not like most of the people on here. I really don't have a season pass to save money although to really do save a lot of money considering I ski 60 days. I have the pass because I want to ski at a place and be part of the culture at the resort. I love the friendships I have gathered and I love skiing and skinning with my friends. I love going to the bar at the end of the day and knowing more than 50% of the people in there. I love the after parties that occur all across the valley every weekend. I love ski in ski out and not having to be in the car all weekend. I love covert missions on skins at night. (don't tell win! ;-) And most of all I love the calmness and the beauty of the area all year round. Mountain Biking and hiking in the summer at just as good as the sking in the winter. Well almost. LOL
I could never be bothered with all the chasing around with vouchers and different mountains. Too much work, too much driving for limited rewards. That's not to say that the SkiVT card and MRV 3 pack is not a purchase I make. I do. But that is just a supplement to what I already have. That's me.

Click to expand...

Bingo....

I hear what all of you are saying. Yup to each his own and it always is that way. For those of you that say I don't like skiing with people because they slow you down or don't like the terrain you like. I say, get better friends. ;-) The golden rule is no more than 4 But 3 is best in case you have an issue and need help. Skiing alone in the woods is foolish in my opinion and I never do that. But I can respect that some people totally get off on the solitude. It's who they are and if they are willing to look past the risk, then I guess that is their thing and I can't argue with that.

Myself and the people I ski with pretty much just ski woods, side country and less traveled areas. We are all equally matched and ski at a good clip. We all know the mountain and have meeting up points on certain runs. So no one is held up.

I would say that after skiing Sugarbush for about 15 years now full time, there are very few places I have not ventured to or passed by. There is a lot that the common skier just passes by. It's what makes things really great once the snow flies and you can ski the woods.

Hawk said:

I would say that after skiing Sugarbush for about 15 years now full time, there are very few places I have not ventured to or passed by. There is a lot that the common skier just passes by. It's what makes things really great once the snow flies and you can ski the woods.

Click to expand...

I'm still somewhat of a Sugarbush neophyte. But what you wrote above is one of the many reasons that I find SB to be a special place. Been skiing there regularly for 5-6 years now. The past two years I've spent more time exploring the woods and every single time I'm up there I find a new experience. Unfortunately for me, many times I'm up there alone and am hesitant to jump into Slidebrook (never done it) without a companion. Last season, I rode the Castlerock lift with a local and he was kind enough to lead me through the trees about halfway down on the skier's right of Middle Earth. I would have never found that on my own. The opening to get into the trees was microscopic. I'm looking forward to taking a guide/lesson this season to get into Slidebrook with someone who knows the terrain and can show me the ropes.

Hawk, it's been a pleasure skiing with you over the last several years. Looking forward to this winter and sharing some quality time in the woods again.