Here We Go Again.....

thetrailboss · Apr 28, 2009

This 17-year old was planning on doing a 17 mile hike over all the Presi's before returning to Pinkham Notch base in one day.

He clearly had no idea what he was doing....and is still missing. Crews are looking for him and have been since Sunday.

http://www.wcax.com/global/story.asp?s=10257100

Not sure if someone from the AMC advised him to reconsider.

Hope he is OK but seriously folks please use some common sense before attempting things like this and putting rescuer's lives on the line.

skibum9995 · Apr 28, 2009

Looks like this one turned out OK.

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Missing+hiker+found+alive%2c+well+on+mountain+ridge&articleId=6aece36e-82d4-4c13-bfb0-f85a1b9f25b2

thetrailboss · Apr 28, 2009

skibum9995 said:
Looks like this one turned out OK.

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Missing+hiker+found+alive%2c+well+on+mountain+ridge&articleId=6aece36e-82d4-4c13-bfb0-f85a1b9f25b2

Wow...he made it as far as Mount Clay. And he is going to be evaced by the MWO's snowcat. That is going to cost him some coin.....

hammer · Apr 28, 2009

And this kid is an Eagle scout with backpacking experience...which most likely made the difference between being recovered and being a statistic.

As a Life scout in my son's troop said, however, being an Eagle Scout doesn't automatically make you smart...:roll:

On a related note, we have a scout who is planning a 16 mile hike in the Presidentials this summer. Is that something that can be realistically done in one day?

thetrailboss · Apr 28, 2009

hammer said:
And this kid is an Eagle scout with backpacking experience...which most likely made the difference between being recovered and being a statistic.

As a Life scout in my son's troop said, however, being an Eagle Scout doesn't automatically make you smart...:roll:

On a related note, we have a scout who is planning a 16 mile hike in the Presidentials this summer. Is that something that can be realistically done in one day?

WHAT? Where did you see that? If that is true, as an Eagle Scout, I am embarrassed to see that one of my fellow Scouts was that dumb. The weather and trail conditions were NOT safe for a 17-mile day hike. In fact, that route requires more than a day and can be difficult even in the best of summer conditions.

Glad he survived, but part of "Being Prepared" and having some good mountain instincts is to not get into a bad situation in the first place. This guy was asking for trouble...unless he was uber prepared and willing to spend the night out in bad conditions. Doesn't sound like that.

Oh...and I just saw you are planning a trip for your troop. You sound like you have an AWESOME group. My troop did LOTS of outdoors activities. PM me for input on hiking in the Whites.

hammer · Apr 28, 2009

thetrailboss said:
WHAT? Where did you see that? If that is true, as an Eagle Scout, I am embarrassed to see that one of my fellow Scouts was that dumb. The weather and trail conditions were NOT safe for a 17-mile day hike. In fact, that route requires more than a day and can be difficult even in the best of summer conditions

Here's a link to WMUR's web site article which mentions that he's an Eagle Scout.

http://www.wmur.com/news/19311072/detail.html

thetrailboss said:
Oh...and I just saw you are planning a trip for your troop. You sound like you have an AWESOME group. My troop did LOTS of outdoors activities. PM me for input on hiking in the Whites.

Actually, I'm not planning this trip, one of the senior scouts is planning it, and I hope we get enough people who sign up. He definitely has at least one adult who wouldn't mind going...:smile:

thetrailboss · Apr 28, 2009

Having a "boy run" troop is a great thing, Hammer.

skibum9995 · Apr 28, 2009

hammer said:
On a related note, we have a scout who is planning a 16 mile hike in the Presidentials this summer. Is that something that can be realistically done in one day?

A 16 mile day is definitely doable, as long as he is in reasonably good shape and starts early. The loop that this hiker attempted is one of my favorite day hikes in the Whites. It sounds like he didn't have much, if any, experience with winter hiking and bit off more than he could chew.

TheBEast · Apr 28, 2009

hammer said:
As a Life scout in my son's troop said, however, being an Eagle Scout doesn't automatically make you smart...:roll:

I got my Eagle Scout back in the ealy-90's and I saw way too many boys in my troop get their Eagle Scout who were not that smart, so just because you got the badge doesn't make you super human.

hammer said:
On a related note, we have a scout who is planning a 16 mile hike in the Presidentials this summer. Is that something that can be realistically done in one day?

In my younger days myself, my brother, step-father and a family friend did the traverse with ideal conditions in 2 days during the summer. I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND doing it in anything less than 2 days. The 2nd day was not my best day I've ever spent in the mountains. A Presi traverse is not something to take lightly, nor plan on doing in record time.

riverc0il · Apr 28, 2009

skibum9995 said:
A 16 mile day is definitely doable, as long as he is in reasonably good shape and starts early. The loop that this hiker attempted is one of my favorite day hikes in the Whites. It sounds like he didn't have much, if any, experience with winter hiking and bit off more than he could chew.

+1

This hike is reasonable even in winter conditions and I have seen reports from winter adventurers that were far more ambitious. If the hiker in question did not have much winter hiking experience above treeline, then that is a problem. But the article says the guy was prepared for an overnight and had winter survival skills. Probably would have been a good idea to have a partner on such an ambitious hike. But a many a respected hiker has completed similar winter routes. Seems like the big issues here were trying to take a shortcut without knowing the trail conditions and attempting this on a day when the valleys were scheduled to hit 90 (even with snow shoes, that suggests post hole city). This seems within acceptable risk if not the best laid plans for the conditions and short cut route options.

Mike P. · Apr 29, 2009

Need a lot more info before we can really tell much. Glad we had a happy ending. That said since bbs's are great for Monday morning Quarterbacking.....

Sounds like he was a strong hiker but a weaker planner. Can this trip be done in a day, yes, in winter yes, will it take longer, most likely. Actually it would have probably been better done in summer or winter than now.

Distance was brutal, combined with the elevation gain, that helped. From what I read (I skimmed a few different places) he was behind schedule & opted to descend the Six Hussbands trail. THAT'S NOT an escape route unless your life is in danger if you stay on the ridge. As far as we know he could have got to Madison & decided not to go down Madison Gulf trail & got as far back as the 6H & decided to descend there. I skimmed over a comment about Avalanches, he may have heard that Mad Gulf's headwall could have been at risk. I don't know if he had a headlamp & I did not see wind speeds for the weekend. With mild weather, he would have been better staying on the ridge & walking down the auto road over descending 6H

IMO, he was looking at getting back to his car on time. He had snowshoes but I don't believe he had a tent or bag. Wasn't to cold unless he was on snow. While some spots on the ridge may get cell reception, in the GG it is unlikely.

With the snow that was on the ground high up & the real warm temps, the streams were quickly filled & many became impassable. A big issue in the GG, several ways to descend the Northern Peaks towards Route 2 where it's not an issue (Valley Way, Randolph Path). Far from his car but he could have hitched or asked a motorist to call his home & tell his parents he was okay, just far from his car.

They found him between Clay & Washington, apparently it took a few days to realize that best place to get out without stream crossings was back up top.

If heading out solo, you really need to have plan & possible escapes/detours well mapped & thought out, you can be slower, you just have to plan accordingly. (I solo about 60% of the time including winter)

Can a solo hiker to 16 miles in the Presidentials, sure, the traverse is 20 or more depending on where you start or end. I did it in 2006 & hopefully next month also. In 2006, started at 4:00 with a headlamp & got to C-Notch by 7:00. Many people do it far faster than that.

The 16 year old should know where to exit in case of bad weather (& when) at various points along the way. Some trails are far better for this than others.

hammer · Apr 30, 2009

Mike P. said:
Need a lot more info before we can really tell much. Glad we had a happy ending. That said since bbs's are great for Monday morning Quarterbacking.....

Sounds like he was a strong hiker but a weaker planner. Can this trip be done in a day, yes, in winter yes, will it take longer, most likely. Actually it would have probably been better done in summer or winter than now.

Distance was brutal, combined with the elevation gain, that helped. From what I read (I skimmed a few different places) he was behind schedule & opted to descend the Six Husbands trail. THAT'S NOT an escape route unless your life is in danger if you stay on the ridge. As far as we know he could have got to Madison & decided not to go down Madison Gulf trail & got as far back as the 6H & decided to descend there. I skimmed over a comment about Avalanches, he may have heard that Mad Gulf's headwall could have been at risk. I don't know if he had a headlamp & I did not see wind speeds for the weekend. With mild weather, he would have been better staying on the ridge & walking down the auto road over descending 6H

IMO, he was looking at getting back to his car on time. He had snowshoes but I don't believe he had a tent or bag. Wasn't to cold unless he was on snow. While some spots on the ridge may get cell reception, in the GG it is unlikely.

With the snow that was on the ground high up & the real warm temps, the streams were quickly filled & many became impassable. A big issue in the GG, several ways to descend the Northern Peaks towards Route 2 where it's not an issue (Valley Way, Randolph Path). Far from his car but he could have hitched or asked a motorist to call his home & tell his parents he was okay, just far from his car.

They found him between Clay & Washington, apparently it took a few days to realize that best place to get out without stream crossings was back up top.

If heading out solo, you really need to have plan & possible escapes/detours well mapped & thought out, you can be slower, you just have to plan accordingly. (I solo about 60% of the time including winter)

Can a solo hiker to 16 miles in the Presidentials, sure, the traverse is 20 or more depending on where you start or end. I did it in 2006 & hopefully next month also. In 2006, started at 4:00 with a headlamp & got to C-Notch by 7:00. Many people do it far faster than that.

The 16 year old should know where to exit in case of bad weather (& when) at various points along the way. Some trails are far better for this than others.

Here's a follow-up...looks like the kid learned his basic lesson about hiking alone but otherwise it seems like he handled his situation quite well.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ne...randed_nh_hiker_brings_lesson_home_for_scouts

thetrailboss · Apr 30, 2009

Glad he is OK, but again, I was taught not to get stuck in situations like this in the first place....is it Monday Morning Quarterbacking? No, I don't think so. I think it's common sense.

kingdom-tele · Apr 30, 2009

nothing ventured, nothing gained

at least he kept his cool, I've seen plenty of people in far less dire situations lose it, not bad for 17, hardest thing for anyone climbing to do is turn around when the timeline doesn't fit

and yes 16 miles is a day hike

thetrailboss · Apr 30, 2009

kingdom-tele said:
nothing ventured, nothing gained

at least he kept his cool, I've seen plenty of people in far less dire situations lose it, not bad for 17, hardest thing for anyone climbing to do is turn around when the timeline doesn't fit

and yes 16 miles is a day hike

I've done 16 mile day hikes, but this route, with the vertical, exposure, and trail conditions was clearly too much.

kingdom-tele · Apr 30, 2009

too much? or not patient enough, one thing when the elements conspire to put you in danger, another when your timetable gets in the way and you start changing plans on the fly, but that is likely more experience, have enough "plans" shattered by all that the woods and mountains can throw at you = respect, patience, and planning

he lived, good enough, what else should we expect?

billski · May 12, 2009

Mike P. said:
If heading out solo, you really need to have plan & possible escapes/detours well mapped & thought out, you can be slower, you just have to plan accordingly. (I solo about 60% of the time including winter)

Mike, you're spot on. The times I've gotten nearly into trouble are those times when I headed out without having done sufficient planning. Not just bringing a map, but studying it beforehand is important. You don't want to be in the thick of things, with the sun setting while you sit and ponder a map.

In most times when I've lost a trail (I do more and more bushwacking), I was able to quickly re-find it, or find an alternate route because I already had the terrain mapped in my mind and been a good observer on the way up.

GrilledSteezeSandwich · May 12, 2009

darwinism at it's finest

Mike P. · May 15, 2009

I have only skimmed the seemingly daily rescues. Since this trip, we've had skiers on Washington (Monroe), Baldface hikers, The Moosilauke trip from Craig's List & another one I know I'm missing, all found safely.

Water crossings this time of year was probably the biggest thing he overlooked.

I'm actually looking at a very similar trip myself I'd guess that he is in better shape than me. Thanks to his troubles, I'm pushing it back in the year though. (park at PNVC, bike ride to GG, hike GG to Osgood & then Gulfside & down one of the Washington trails.) To make up for the fitness, I'd start at first light.

hammer · Jul 17, 2009

Looks like NH is going after the rescue costs on this one:

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/20088488/detail.html

Here We Go Again.....

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