Stowe Releases Pass Rates

ccskier · Sep 9, 2009

Once again, blah blah Stowe is too expensive. Then don't go there. If that is their niche market then so be it. You really don't realize how much money flows through that town until you live there. Deadhead can attest, we both worked at a lesser expensive hotel but it doesn't phase people to drop $5g's a weeked at Topnotch (way over rated). Last winter the lady in front of me bought a 3day pass for a family of 4, was like. $800, she didn't even flinch, just threw down the amex, it is what it is. A lot of people who can afford to do such thing deservingly do so. They may have busted their ass (and big tuition bills) to become dentist, drs, whatever. I say good for them. As I have said before, I will still and always have a few days a year at Stowe and love every minute and dollar of it, its worth it to me. If/when I move back to VT it will be my home mountain, even if I have to bust my ass to afford it for my family.

snoseek · Sep 10, 2009

ccskier;458479it is. A lot of people who can afford to do such thing deservingly do so. [/QUOTE said:
A lot maybe but usually not the majority. I can say this with confidence.

Fuck Stowe and their "niche market".

edit-yes i had kind of a shitty day-i feel better now thanx!

OldsnowboarderME · Sep 10, 2009

ccskier said:
Once again, blah blah Stowe is too expensive. Then don't go there. If that is their niche market then so be it. You really don't realize how much money flows through that town until you live there. Deadhead can attest, we both worked at a lesser expensive hotel but it doesn't phase people to drop $5g's a weeked at Topnotch (way over rated). Last winter the lady in front of me bought a 3day pass for a family of 4, was like. $800, she didn't even flinch, just threw down the amex, it is what it is. A lot of people who can afford to do such thing deservingly do so. They may have busted their ass (and big tuition bills) to become dentist, drs, whatever. I say good for them. As I have said before, I will still and always have a few days a year at Stowe and love every minute and dollar of it, its worth it to me. If/when I move back to VT it will be my home mountain, even if I have to bust my ass to afford it for my family.

Can you feel the love? I know I can ..

thetrailboss · Sep 10, 2009

deadheadskier said:
probably cause NY, MA and CT bought the state

the vacation market bitches about high taxes in VT, yet the natives struggle to buy a modest home. Part of the reason I left. To damn hard to make ends meet in VT.

VT has a lot of programs in place to prevent flipping real estate for profit and making it more affordable for natives, but I could no longer imagine living there unless I was a highly educated professional in a medical field.

Don't get me started. Being said native, I have little sympathy for people who complain about how much it costs to own a second or third home. I would love to own a home rather than rent. Many others would love to own just one as well.

frozencorn · Sep 10, 2009

Wait, Stowe is expensive? Gee.

deadheadskier · Sep 10, 2009

thetrailboss said:
Don't get me started. Being said native, I have little sympathy for people who complain about how much it costs to own a second or third home. I would love to own a home rather than rent. Many others would love to own just one as well.

I remember when Act 60 was passed in VT doubling the property taxes on my parents modest 1400 sf home to $4000. My father was pissed, calling Vermont the socialist state this and that. I was a student at UVM at the time and had many industry friends out in Stowe that couldn't afford to buy a home within 45 minutes of their jobs in town.

The argument of the second home owner is/was that they shouldn't be punished so harshly with high taxes because their the ones bringing the money into the state and creating jobs through tourism. I can see that point, however non-natives need to put themselves in the shoes of locals and understand that with the influx of tourism dollars, it makes it unaffordable to live and work there. Part of the reason why many Vermonters don't like 'flat landers'

RISkier · Sep 10, 2009

Geoff said:
Of the ski resorts on an Epic Pass, only A-Basin is a locals area. Breck, Keystone, Vail, Beaver Creek, and Heavenly certainly attract a crap load of ski week traffic.

The Colorado economics are different from the Northeast. In Colorado, you only have a drive-to day trip and weekender market of a couple million. For Southern & Central Vermont, that market is like 50 million people.

The Epic Pass is really targeted at ski weekers. At that price point, it's designed so you don't quite break even in a ski week so you need to come back again to make your money back. The locals have the Colorado Pass that you have to buy in-person either at the ski areas pre-season or at places like REI. The Colorado Pass gives you 10 days at Vail/Beaver Creek blacked out during the holiday periods and unlimited at A-Basin, Keystone, and Breckenridge.

That makes sense and I guess it works. We were able to swap a time share to visit Vail this year, started looking at lift ticket options, and decided we'd buy the Epic pass and try to make two CO trips this year. We've considered various season passes at Eastern resorts but between work schedules and location they just don't make sense for us.

thetrailboss · Sep 10, 2009

deadheadskier said:
I remember when Act 60 was passed in VT doubling the property taxes on my parents modest 1400 sf home to $4000. My father was pissed, calling Vermont the socialist state this and that. I was a student at UVM at the time and had many industry friends out in Stowe that couldn't afford to buy a home within 45 minutes of their jobs in town.

The argument of the second home owner is/was that they shouldn't be punished so harshly with high taxes because their the ones bringing the money into the state and creating jobs through tourism. I can see that point, however non-natives need to put themselves in the shoes of locals and understand that with the influx of tourism dollars, it makes it unaffordable to live and work there. Part of the reason why many Vermonters don't like 'flat landers'

Yep. We're bordering on politics, so I won't add much more, other than to say that there was one comment up there that folks have worked hard for the $$$ and are professionals, so they should be able to spend the big $$$ for Stowe. That's fine. What I don't like, having spent much time around many said professionals and their kids is the sense of intense entitlement. I have a professional graduate degree. That doesn't "entitle me" to be an a$$hole to other folks or to certain things. Sorry. Combine this sense of entitlement, plus the conspicuous consumerism and you have what some of the Stowe Crowd has become.

That said: I am surprised that with a struggling AIG, bad economy, and where most of Stowe's market have lost their high paying jobs, I am surprised to see that the resort stuck to their guns with high priced passes. But then again they are aiming for a particular market and with AIG considering dumping the place I am sure that the pressure is on for the resort to break even or make a profit. From my understanding, Stowe is one of the few places that does that on a regular basis. To their credit, I have noticed many more day promos and other deals. No more night skiing though...

marcski · Sep 10, 2009

thetrailboss said:
That said: I am surprised that with a struggling AIG, bad economy, and where most of Stowe's market have lost their high paying jobs, I am surprised to see that the resort stuck to their guns with high priced passes. But then again they are aiming for a particular market and with AIG considering dumping the place I am sure that the pressure is on for the resort to break even or make a profit. From my understanding, Stowe is one of the few places that does that on a regular basis. To their credit, I have noticed many more day promos and other deals. No more night skiing though...

I just heard yesterday on the news that the top 10% of wage earners have not really lost any jobs...and in fact, their wages have remained steady or increased! Therefore, despite the "economic meltdown", I think most of Stowe's niche market have not lost their jobs....hence the increase in prices......

thetrailboss · Sep 10, 2009

marcski said:
I just heard yesterday on the news that the top 10% of wage earners have not really lost any jobs...and in fact, their wages have remained steady or increased! Therefore, despite the "economic meltdown", I think most of Stowe's niche market have not lost their jobs....hence the increase in prices......

Really? :blink:

mondeo · Sep 10, 2009

marcski said:
I just heard yesterday on the news that the top 10% of wage earners have not really lost any jobs...and in fact, their wages have remained steady or increased! Therefore, despite the "economic meltdown", I think most of Stowe's niche market have not lost their jobs....hence the increase in prices......

Stowe's niche market isn't the top 10%, it's the top 1%. In 2007, $76K got you into the top 10%.

Also, if their wages have been steady, then they are now earning less due to the massive inflation that has been put in place.

deadheadskier · Sep 10, 2009

mondeo said:
Stowe's niche market isn't the top 10%, it's the top 1%. In 2007, $76K got you into the top 10%.

Also, if their wages have been steady, then they are now earning less due to the massive inflation that has been put in place.

I would have figured that number to be 50K higher.

As for inflation, I certainly am not seeing it; at least compared with a year ago.

Gas is much cheaper, milk is less than half the cost, real estate down 10%, meats are down 10-15%, veggies down 5-10%. All of your basics.....food, shelter, transportation are considerably cheaper than they have been in the past couple of years. I keep hearing inflation, but I don't see it or feel it. When I say that, I get the response 'it's coming'. Okay, when?

billski · Sep 10, 2009

Inflation, as measured by the Consumer Price Index has declined 2.1% over the past twelve months.

http://www.bls.gov/cpi/

mondeo · Sep 10, 2009

billski said:
Inflation, as measured by the Consumer Price Index has declined 2.1% over the past twelve months.

http://www.bls.gov/cpi/

And the CPI's increased by 2.4% since December, through July. Looking at 5% on the year, highest since 1990. TARP didn't go into effect until October, the Fed rates weren't really slashed until October, with the final drop to 0% coming in December, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 coming in, well, 2009.

Recessions are naturally deflationary. Pumping money into the market is by definition inflationary.

GrilledSteezeSandwich · Sep 10, 2009

ccskier said:
They may have busted their ass (and big tuition bills) to become dentist, drs, whatever. I say good for them. As I have said before, I will still and always have a few days a year at Stowe and love every minute and dollar of it, its worth it to me. If/when I move back to VT it will be my home mountain, even if I have to bust my ass to afford it for my family.

Stowe is one of the few places that's worth the price of admission..Jackson Hole as well..shit people pay $50 to ski Blue mountain..which I don't feel is worth that much...I have nothing against rich people as most of them worked really hard to get where they are except for the few lucky ones who inherited the money..

GrilledSteezeSandwich · Sep 10, 2009

thetrailboss said:
I would love to own a home rather than rent. .

I'm in the minority..I'd rather rent..it's just much easier and stressfree..I could have bought a house when I was 25..but will likely live in an apartment until I get married..

GrilledSteezeSandwich · Sep 10, 2009

mondeo said:
Stowe's niche market isn't the top 10%, it's the top 1%. In 2007, $76K got you into the top 10%.

Also, if their wages have been steady, then they are now earning less due to the massive inflation that has been put in place.

I make less than $76K a year and I made three trips up to Stowe last year although I was won over by the mountain in college and will visit the place every year I live in the east for life!!! I'm guessing only a small percentage of Stowe skiers and riders are in the top 1%..as those people probably spend most of their vacation $$$$ out west and in Europe..

I feel like the wealthiest skiers I've seen have been at Okemo and Stratton just based on the cars alone but Stowe has it's share of granola eating telebeardos driving 20 year old Suburus..

GrilledSteezeSandwich · Sep 10, 2009

billski said:
Inflation, as measured by the Consumer Price Index has declined 2.1% over the past twelve months.

http://www.bls.gov/cpi/

Awesome news..especially for those who received a raise this year..

but Stowe is and remains the Eastern Capital of skiing...it is a mecca..so much sweet terrain, fast lifts and I like the vibe...and the slog up the hill to the quad..

Alot of wealthy people skiing at Sugarbush and Killington as well..even Mad River Glen..

marcski · Sep 10, 2009

mondeo said:
Stowe's niche market isn't the top 10%, it's the top 1%. In 2007, $76K got you into the top 10%.

Also, if their wages have been steady, then they are now earning less due to the massive inflation that has been put in place.

I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers from??

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_sala...n_top_10_of_wage_earners_in_the_united_states

http://www.parade.com/articles/editions/2006/edition_03-12-2006/wpe_lede_story

The following is a quote from: http://www.kiplinger.com/features/archives/2007/11/taxrank.html

"The data also make it easy for you to know how your income stacks up against your fellow citizens. The newly-released numbers show that an income of $31,987 or more puts you in the top half of taxpayers. Earning a bit more than twice that much -- $64,702 -- earns you a spot among the top 25% of all wage earners. You crack the elite top 10% if you earn more than $108,904.
And $388,806 buys top bragging rights: Earn that much or more and you're among the top 1% of all American earners."

GrilledSteezeSandwich · Sep 10, 2009

Mondeo seriously likes to argue just for the sake of arguing..

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