Tenney to Join NELSAP???

Folks on the NELSAP Board have been throwing this around for about a week, based on a report from a reliable source that Tenney was going to close its ski operations, auction off equipment, and go out of business. Another industry insider said that PSNH was peddling former Tenney snowmaking equipment which had been seized to pay off debt.

There's been no season pass sale and Tenney's site is changed over and has no skiing information.

Any insight from folks in here as to what is going on, if anything?

No inside info, but damn that place was empty when I visited. Poor lifts, poor snow conditions, and poor marketing. Terrain just so so. No surprise to me at all if they're done for good.

Pretty sad when you have a college right there...

I had heard that EMS was going to run camps and programs at Tenney, but judging by the fact that their Nor'Easter Event is at Loon that seems in doubt.

I also noticed that EMS is using a logo that looks like Sugarloaf's....unless Sugarloaf is a sponsor (?)

wasn't tenney the area that hooked up with snow magic with plans to offer summer skiing. guess that didn't work to well for them ...

skiadikt said:

wasn't tenney the area that hooked up with snow magic with plans to offer summer skiing. guess that didn't work to well for them ...

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Yes that was about 7 years ago and under a different ownership.

I wouldn't be surprised if they did close. I wanted to try skiing them this past winter, but their trail count was always low, and reading between the lines in their snow reports gave the impression of a very poorly run or underfunded operation.

speden said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they did close. I wanted to try skiing them this past winter, but their trail count was always low, and reading between the lines in their snow reports gave the impression of a very poorly run or underfunded operation.

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I bought the $99 season pass special there two years ago and had some great days, but only because it was a good snow year. I actually enjoy the terrain for what it is. There are some cool low angle glades, I found a couple of fun shots not on the map and a few of their cruisers have nice character.

That said, in this day and age, I think for them to survive, they'd need to be purchased by a company with enough resources to replace the summit lift with a HSQ, rehaul the snowmaking and market themselves as a mellow family place priced in the mid-50s. i.e. follow the Ragged model for mid-sized areas.

deadheadskier said:

That said, in this day and age, I think for them to survive, they'd need to be purchased by a company with enough resources to replace the summit lift with a HSQ, rehaul the snowmaking and market themselves as a mellow family place priced in the mid-50s. i.e. follow the Ragged model for mid-sized areas.

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The Ragged model pushed the owners of Ragged at the time into bankruptcy.

yes because they didn't have enough resources to overhual the snowmaking and market the place properly.

my understanding is they've been making a modest profit the past couple seasons.

Is it likely that an investor is going to come into Tenney, dump the 10 mil or so needed into it to make it viable knowing it would take many many years to get that investment back? hell no. I'm just saying it's what I think the place needs to be able to survive otherwise it will indeed be on the nelsap list.

threecy said:

The Ragged model pushed the owners of Ragged at the time into bankruptcy.

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From where I sit what did it was putting in a six pack and not being able to afford to keep it spinning. Maybe I am completely off, but it's just an observation. The place, like Pats Peak, was always run conservatively by the same family who did their own construction work and added a little bit here and there to keep it going and kept things simple.

taxes were an issue

http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/resort-owners-get-reprieve?page=0,0

Other lifts on the mountain were in severe disrepair, one of which was removed. Numerous broken snowmaking lines, some of which still need some work, but most have been repaired.

Yes, the former owners did bite off more than they could chew, but it's all relative to financial reserves. I don't think putting in the Six Pack was a bad decision for the mountain, but I do think for them as owners it was.

thetrailboss said:

From where I sit what did it was putting in a six pack and not being able to afford to keep it spinning. Maybe I am completely off, but it's just an observation. The place, like Pats Peak, was always run conservatively by the same family who did their own construction work and added a little bit here and there to keep it going and kept things simple.

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The late installation of the 6 Pack (it didn't open until the middle of the 2001-2002 season), as well as the subsequent half-or-so-season-closures of the 6 Pack and Spear Mountain Triple were due to a lack of funds. They purchased the 6 Pack in 2001 because it was relatively cheap - it was originally ordered by another ski area (I forget which one offhand), but after a cancellation, Poma wanted to unload the inventory.

Pats Peak has chosen thus far not to install a detach.

deadheadskier said:

taxes were an issue

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Property taxes are often the last bills to get paid by ski areas. Thus, during a bad year, they're likely to go unpaid, and continue to add up as interest/penalties build.

http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/resort-owners-get-reprieve?page=0,0

deadheadskier said:

Yes, the former owners did bite off more than they could chew, but it's all relative to financial reserves. I don't think putting in the Six Pack was a bad decision for the mountain, but I do think for them as owners it was.

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It's a lot more than financial reserves. High speed detaches use tremendously more energy than fixed grips, require much more maintenance hours, require more advanced maintenance skills, and have much more costly parts.

I'm aware. I'm just saying that for almost every area over 1000 vert in the east whose name is not Mad River Glen, the expectation is that the main lift should be a detachable. There are some areas such as Shawnee Peak, ME where this is not the case and it works for them. Tenney doesn't have the benefit of being the only game 45 minutes away from a metro area of 250K people like Shawnee does.

deadheadskier said:

Tenney doesn't have the benefit of being the only game 45 minutes away from a metro area of 250K people like Shawnee does.

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Tenney would be caught between markets - the price point they'd need to attract skiers would likely only be attainable if they did not go the detach route. If they go the detach route, they'd likely hit the lift ticket level of larger areas, thus pushing them to the bottom of that pack.

Tenney has a bunch of obstacles - the infrastructure is old and has been picked through over the years. The snowmaking system is inadequate for a modern ski area. The only decent lift is a lower mountain lift - the other two are nearing half a century in age and would be inadequate if Tenney were to draw the numbers necessary to make it sustainable.

Tenney has limited room for real estate development given its current footprint. The original development (near the beginner area) as well as the 1980s development (near the triple) already have the slope side plots developed and long since sold (and selling below condo market value in the general Lakes Region). The remaining plots in the 1980s development (including at least one incomplete condo) are a bit out of the way.

Tenney also has left a bad taste in the mouth of the local community, due to issues with previous ownership groups. They've gone under and/or changed ownership numerous times (including a name change briefly in the early 90s), and left some customers and vendors high and dry. Even with new ownership, it does take a long time to heal such wounds.

Bottom line, the best chance Tenney likely has toward survival is an owner who can toss millions of dollars into the mountain and then sustain at least half a decade of annual losses.

threecy said:

Tenney has limited room for real estate development given its current footprint. The original development (near the beginner area) as well as the 1980s development (near the triple) already have the slope side plots developed and long since sold (and selling below condo market value in the general Lakes Region).

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The lack of new development is a big issue as so many expansions are funded by real estate. However, the condos on slope are currently selling on par with most other condos in the Pemi-Baker area (for those similar in age, design, and build quality). However, that in and of itself is a problem as slopeside condos should be substantially above the market price for the area.

I (very) briefly considered Tenney before we bought our Condo in Ashland. It was actually a little less expensive buying a condo with river access in Ashland than Tenney. But local knowledge is that the Tenney condos are not the best built. And with a ski area of uncertain future, who wants to take the risk? An out of business ski area surely would decrease values.

I wonder how many of those units are permanent versus vacationer ownership versus rental? I bet you would find a very high percentage of permanent residents compared to almost any other slope side condo at any other mountain.

riverc0il said:

I (very) briefly considered Tenney before we bought our Condo in Ashland. It was actually a little less expensive buying a condo with river access in Ashland than Tenney. But local knowledge is that the Tenney condos are not the best built. And with a ski area of uncertain future, who wants to take the risk? An out of business ski area surely would decrease values.

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The 80s development looks slightly better than the 60s development in terms of quality, but indeed, they do not seem to match up well to much of the rest of the market. From what I've been seeing, the Tenney condos sell (as opposed to list price) below the price of other condos of their size in the area. The prices were especially low prior to SnoMagic, if I recall.

riverc0il said:

I wonder how many of those units are permanent versus vacationer ownership versus rental? I bet you would find a very high percentage of permanent residents compared to almost any other slope side condo at any other mountain.

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I don't have the numbers, but it seems that a lot of folks who own or rent there don't appear to be skiers, based upon my limited number of off season visits.

Not so much

Well, I just seem to be the bearer of bad news here today.

I cannot get a hold of anybody at Tenney.
- I called the Tenney number and got a recording from "White Mountain Explorations" indicating they are now closed for the year, and will see you again in the spring.
- I called SkiNH and they indicated Tenny is not a part of that group (has not been in the past either) and knew nothing.
- I called the Chamber of commerce and they didn't know anything, except that it always was a day by day, year by year thing.
- I called certain lodging outfits that in the past offered ski-and-stay packages with them. They "heard" that Tenney would not operate this winter and has not been able to contact them.
- www.tennymtn.com - Well, you see what I see...

I am only a hair's breadth away from writing them off.

Another sad day in the north country. Weak economies take down the weakest first...

:-(

The word around the campfire....

I've heard conflicting reports around town, but the universal opinion is that there will be no skiing there this year. (Lift serviced, that is:wink: )

One source told of foreclosure, another (more reliable) said no foreclosure but current owner has abandoned hope of operating the ski area, and that the yurts, and even much of the summer operation's equipment, have been removed.

Only first hand report I can give is that I drove up to the parking lot 3 weeks ago and it was even more desolate up there than ever. Looked very sad.

This is all just small town scuttlebutt amplified by the internet, though. Maybe they will pull a rabbit out of their ass. But I'm not holding my breath.

Looks like its time to pick up a ski area on the cheap