`Lifetime' season ski pass holders lose Killington lawsuit

dmc · Jul 9, 2010

I'd sue the F'er that sold to me... Probably a better chance of winning..

dmc · Jul 9, 2010

Groundskeeper Willie said:
.next thing you know , these tubesteaks will take their defunct S&H Greenstamps to hannafords and lay claim that since this ONCE WAS an A&P grocery store...sheeshhhh...

Good one...

Tin Woodsman · Jul 9, 2010

threecy said:
But on the flip side, if people drag down SP/Powdr, then it'll affect the working/business owning locals, so perhaps they'll realize they're messing with the wrong people.

Baloney. If SP/POWDR is intent on building out a vision that is going to hurt their business even more and which is ignorant of market realities in the East as a whole and K-Mart in particular, the locals should be cautious. If those clowns leave, K-Mart isn't just going to roll the carpets up and cease functioning. Another operator will come in, presumably one who can't do much worse than the clowns currently in charge. Of course, no one thought things could be worse than under the latter years of ASC and look how that turned out. That said, I would never advocate simply rolling over for the local mountain just b/c they want something. SPs village development plans have been joke worthy while POWDR has run away 1/3 of the customers who were left when ASC died. It's the worst of both worlds - why would anyone support that?

Groundskeeper Willie · Jul 9, 2010

with SP having given up 25% ridership...

Tin Woodsman said:
Baloney. If SP/POWDR is intent on building out a vision that is going to hurt their business even more and which is ignorant of market realities in the East as a whole and K-Mart in particular, the locals should be cautious. If those clowns leave, K-Mart isn't just going to roll the carpets up and cease functioning. Another operator will come in, presumably one who can't do much worse than the clowns currently in charge. Of course, no one thought things could be worse than under the latter years of ASC and look how that turned out. That said, I would never advocate simply rolling over for the local mountain just b/c they want something. SPs village development plans have been joke worthy while POWDR has run away 1/3 of the customers who were left when ASC died. It's the worst of both worlds - why would anyone support that?

HOW can this be a BAD thing...FOR A SKIER/RIDER?.. I have no interest in their bottom line...but DO enjoy A: less crowded trails...B: shorter liftlines....C: NOT having ass-to-ass interaction a la ASC's $399season ticket years....I'd rather look at it as a CONSUMER...its their company....if they wanna endeavor to make it a faux Deer Valley ( which'll never happen) , let 'em. and when it shits the proverbial bed?...I'll join in the raucous laughter...

SkiDork · Jul 9, 2010

Groundskeeper Willie said:
HOW can this be a BAD thing...FOR A SKIER/RIDER?.. I have no interest in their bottom line...but DO enjoy A: less crowded trails...B: shorter liftlines....C: NOT having ass-to-ass interaction a la ASC's $399season ticket years....I'd rather look at it as a CONSUMER...its their company....if they wanna endeavor to make it a faux Deer Valley ( which'll never happen) , let 'em. and when it shits the proverbial bed?...I'll join in the raucous laughter...

I think he was saying support from a local business perspective...

Groundskeeper Willie · Jul 9, 2010

oops..

Clearly I missed the jist of it...mybad..

jack97 · Jul 9, 2010

Groundskeeper Willie said:
..next thing you know , these tubesteaks will take their defunct S&H Greenstamps to hannafords and lay claim that since this ONCE WAS an A&P grocery store...sheeshhhh...

yeah.... a good analogy.

I have no sympathy for any of the "lifetime" k mart pass holders, if anything... it cases like this that tells me we have to many lawyers looking for any miniscule technicalities to challenge a case where its so black and white.

Geoff · Jul 10, 2010

Groundskeeper Willie said:
HOW can this be a BAD thing...FOR A SKIER/RIDER?.. I have no interest in their bottom line...but DO enjoy A: less crowded trails...B: shorter liftlines....C: NOT having ass-to-ass interaction a la ASC's $399season ticket years....I'd rather look at it as a CONSUMER...its their company....if they wanna endeavor to make it a faux Deer Valley ( which'll never happen) , let 'em. and when it shits the proverbial bed?...I'll join in the raucous laughter...

At some point, skier volume drops to the point where Killington isn't viable. It's expensive to blow all that snow and pay the staff & expenses to operate all those lifts and base lodges at a ski area that sprawls so much. At the 650-ish thousand skier visits they're doing now, they're viable as long as energy prices don't spike. At 500K skier visits, the whole thing probably falls over. They're already down 1/3 under POWDR. If you lose much more, you start seeing business failures on the Access Road and the skier visit loss snowballs. $5.00/gallon gas prices and a string of bad snow winters where it's too warm to blow snow could easily cause a 150,000 skier visit drop.

I'm not saying it's going to happen but the business has been so mismanaged that it's certainly possible.

threecy · Jul 10, 2010

Geoff said:
At the 650-ish thousand skier visits they're doing now, they're viable as long as energy prices don't spike. At 500K skier visits, the whole thing probably falls over.

Take a look at their lifts and lodges. At 650K-1M visitors, they're usually at 100% operation on weekend/holidays to accomodate the crowds (including the former stock issued lifetime passes). Quite a few lifts and lodges are not necessary - they certainly can scale back a bit more if they need to. Hopefully, as they eventually replace more of the ancient Yans, they re-engineer their pods to allow for less lifts in order for a barebones operation.

Tin Woodsman · Jul 11, 2010

threecy said:
Take a look at their lifts and lodges. At 650K-1M visitors, they're usually at 100% operation on weekend/holidays to accomodate the crowds (including the former stock issued lifetime passes). Quite a few lifts and lodges are not necessary - they certainly can scale back a bit more if they need to. Hopefully, as they eventually replace more of the ancient Yans, they re-engineer their pods to allow for less lifts in order for a barebones operation.

I know they're doing this on weekdays, much to the chagrin of many locals, but I'm not sure how they could do it on weekends. IIRC, they don't run Canyon, South Ridge or Needles Eye on some/all weekdays. Same for the Skyeship as well.

Geoff · Jul 11, 2010

Tin Woodsman said:
I know they're doing this on weekdays, much to the chagrin of many locals, but I'm not sure how they could do it on weekends. IIRC, they don't run Canyon, South Ridge or Needles Eye on some/all weekdays. Same for the Skyeship as well.

...and that has done a very nice job of chasing away the midweek business. Killington charges the same $77 day ticket rate on a Wednesday when services are dramatically curtailed as on a Sunday. POWDR has done little to promote midweek business, either.

As I said, the whole thing snowballs. The nightlife vanishes because the bars can't justify hiring entertainment. That causes the core demographic that Killington has always attracted.... the big spending Jersey Joey and his red talon nail & lipstick big haired girlfriend.... to go elsewhere. Killington can't make it on their advanced skier season pass base. It's the metro-NYC day ticket people who pay the bills since Killington has pretty much lost the Boston market.

dmc · Jul 11, 2010

Geoff said:
As I said, the whole thing snowballs. The nightlife vanishes because the bars can't justify hiring entertainment. That causes the core demographic that Killington has always attracted.... the big spending Jersey Joey and his red talon nail & lipstick big haired girlfriend.... to go elsewhere. Killington can't make it on their advanced skier season pass base. It's the metro-NYC day ticket people who pay the bills since Killington has pretty much lost the Boston market.

Wonder if the demographic is going to head back to Hunter? No rumblings from the Hunter ex-patriots of leaving K... But they are hair and makeup gondola types...

`Lifetime' season ski pass holders lose Killington lawsuit

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