Killington is going to open before Sunday River this season.

drjeff · Aug 22, 2010

riverc0il said:
I don't know about that. As a powder hound myself, I am always trying to analyze mountains for the best snowfall in various storms. If choosing between the two based on natural snow only, I would choose Bush nine times out of ten (occasionally, Killington does line up with something that hits them with more snow than Bush). Bush has a lot of skiing at elevation where the snow is deepest and they get a good amount of lift whereas I just don't see K getting the same type of lift and not much of their terrain is way up off the summit (and the trails that do come off the summit are not their best whereas a lot of Bush's best stuff is up high). Add in opportunities to escape the crowds which can preserve natural snow and OB/off map, and I think Bush is hands down a better powder mountain than Killington in every way. I don't have the total averages but I read enough reports and can read between the lines enough that I see a lot of times when Bush skiers report epicness when K is merely really good.

With all due respect to the Killington breathern here and there TR enthusiasm - I seriously wonder if some of the difference between the "epic" Bush pow day TR's and the merely "really good" K pow day TR's has to do more with the standards and expectations of the "average" K local/diehard vs those of the "average" Bush local/diehard - since those there is usually quite a difference between those two types of people

Geoff · Aug 22, 2010

riverc0il said:
I don't know about that. As a powder hound myself, I am always trying to analyze mountains for the best snowfall in various storms. If choosing between the two based on natural snow only, I would choose Bush nine times out of ten (occasionally, Killington does line up with something that hits them with more snow than Bush). Bush has a lot of skiing at elevation where the snow is deepest and they get a good amount of lift whereas I just don't see K getting the same type of lift and not much of their terrain is way up off the summit (and the trails that do come off the summit are not their best whereas a lot of Bush's best stuff is up high). Add in opportunities to escape the crowds which can preserve natural snow and OB/off map, and I think Bush is hands down a better powder mountain than Killington in every way. I don't have the total averages but I read enough reports and can read between the lines enough that I see a lot of times when Bush skiers report epicness when K is merely really good.

The difference isn't snowfall amount, it's the sheer number of skiers who show up on a powder day and total uphill capacity. On any Killington powder day, it tracks out in a hurry. Sugarbush has about 500 acres. Killington about 750 but a big chunk of it is useless. Killington can push 37,500 people up the hill per hour. Sugarbush about 25,000. I really can't speak to Sugarbush but at Killington on a powder day, every chair goes up full all morning. If Killington gets a foot of snow on a Wednesday night, there will be no evidence of it by the time the weekenders get to it on Saturday morning. This creates the whole fiction about Killington lying in their snow reports. If anything, they under report a little.

The sidecountry at Sugarbush wins hands-down. The Bucklin Trail at Killington is fun once in a blue moon but it's a pain in the neck getting a car to Wheelerville Road.

Compare that to Mad River where you have a single chair that moves 600 skiers per hour. The surface will be good days afterwards.

mondeo · Aug 22, 2010

Alright, this is more like it.

bigbog · Aug 22, 2010

Highway Star said:
You heard it here first folks!!!....

Would be good for K, but my $.02 intuition is that this seals the deal for an early dump up here in Maine.....

Grabbing new(2010) powskis on Wednesday!...WoooHooo.

Edd · Aug 22, 2010

In addition to Killington's skier traffic burden, I wonder if they suffer greater temperature swings being further south. An obvious disadvantage.

mondeo · Aug 23, 2010

bigbog said:
Would be good for K, but my $.02 intuition is that this seals the deal for an early dump up here in Maine.....
Grabbing new(2010) powskis on Wednesday!...WoooHooo.

You just contradicted yourself. Obviously the purchase of powder skis trumps all other jinxing activity.

UVSHTSTRM · Aug 23, 2010

Edd said:
In addition to Killington's skier traffic burden, I wonder if they suffer greater temperature swings being further south. An obvious disadvantage.

Only been going to Killington for a few years (5 or 6), but I would agree with your statement. I have never been to the Bush, but several of the "Pow Days" at Killington have been a bit of a dissapointment. 5 or 6 of the midweek storms I have hit (last 2 or 3 years) were mixed with sleet and/or they have had inversion. I had to chuckle when I read the next days reports and it says 18-24inches. And of course there is always the high winds that make the trails shitty, but the woods nice. Granted the conditions could have been exactly the same at other mountains.

In all fairness though, I have also been there when they have clearly under reported as well.

Puck it · Aug 23, 2010

UVSHTSTRM said:
Only been going to Killington for a few years (5 or 6), but I would agree with your statement. I have never been to the Bush, but several of the "Pow Days" at Killington have been a bit of a dissapointment. 5 or 6 of the midweek storms I have hit (last 2 or 3 years) were mixed with sleet and/or they have had inversion. I had to chuckle when I read the next days reports and it says 18-24inches. And of course there is always the high winds that make the trails shitty, but the woods nice. Granted the conditions could have been exactly the same at other mountains.

In all fairness though, I have also been there when they have clearly under reported as well.

I like when the wind blows the goods into the woods. All the more for me.

skiadikt · Aug 23, 2010

geoff is right about the skier density thing at k. almost too much uphill capacity (which is why many of us are against an hsq on snowden). the hordes come out on a powday and most trails are tracked out within a half hour to an hour max. you gotta have a plan of attack. like everywhere else, it's a very "competitive" situation. on-map trees last a bit longer. by lunch you're definitely hitting your "stashes". if the powday is on a friday, by saturday it's like it didn't snow.

back to the stairway to heaven ... after last season's closing a week early debacle, i still don't see them doing this unless there's been a major shift in attitude/policy. they have shown no inclination in the past to risk losing any of their profit. i think sr's early opening supremacy is safe.

Highway Star · Aug 23, 2010

mondeo said:
I'm guessing the walkway is a feeler for the market for what a 2 week monopoly gets them and the appetite for downloading off the gondola. If successful, it might push up the timetable for redoing the peak lodge, putting some sort of early season lift, going early on NRT and faster high altitude expansion than they'd bother with in the past. I mean, what would a walkway cost them? $10K, max? Pays off with 200 lift tickets beyond operations break even, probably saves $10K in snowmaking waste first year anyways when they don't have to blow lower Bunny until they're sure it can stay for a bit.

That $10k number sounds pretty unrealistic...you could easily spend that much on a very nice deck for a house or business. The walkway probably has to be 3 to 5 feet wide, with stairs, railings, metal grating for a surface, concrete footings....plus it's at 4000ft on a mountain. Is it going to be wood or metal (aluminum?) construction? Pre-fab metal or scratch built? It needs to have proper plans made up. Labor is tough to judge because it might be built or assisted by in-house staff.

I would guess more in the $30-50K+ range. I would also guess they could put it up in a few weeks with a good sized crew, so you would think they would need to start it in the next few weeks to have it ready by mid October. Possible, but we'll see...

frankm938 · Aug 23, 2010

Highway Star said:
That $10k number sounds pretty unrealistic...you could easily spend that much on a very nice deck for a house or business. The walkway probably has to be 3 to 5 feet wide, with stairs, railings, metal grating for a surface, concrete footings....plus it's at 4000ft on a mountain. Is it going to be wood or metal (aluminum?) construction? Pre-fab metal or scratch built? It needs to have proper plans made up. Labor is tough to judge because it might be built or assisted by in-house staff.

I would guess more in the $30-50K+ range. I would also guess they could put it up in a few weeks with a good sized crew, so you would think they would need to start it in the next few weeks to have it ready by mid October. Possible, but we'll see...

does this mean you are staying at killington this season?

Johnskiismore · Aug 23, 2010

Highway Star said:
That $10k number sounds pretty unrealistic...you could easily spend that much on a very nice deck for a house or business. The walkway probably has to be 3 to 5 feet wide, with stairs, railings, metal grating for a surface, concrete footings....plus it's at 4000ft on a mountain. Is it going to be wood or metal (aluminum?) construction? Pre-fab metal or scratch built? It needs to have proper plans made up. Labor is tough to judge because it might be built or assisted by in-house staff.

I would guess more in the $30-50K+ range. I would also guess they could put it up in a few weeks with a good sized crew, so you would think they would need to start it in the next few weeks to have it ready by mid October. Possible, but we'll see...

In agreement, no way 10K, I would put it at least 50K. My deck is 448sf and was about half the number in question with no frills if you will.

Newpylong · Aug 23, 2010

I agree, I think it would be in the 50K range if not more...

Vortex · Aug 24, 2010

Be a curious month of October.

Sr will open as soon as it can. They don't have the elevation. Really only can do what the weather allows. Others have more options,

Only thing I am sure of is Sr will have one of, if not the longest season again this year.

Highway Star · Aug 25, 2010

frankm938 said:
does this mean you are staying at killington this season?

I always say I'm going to leave. We'll be back this year though.

drjeff · Aug 25, 2010

Highway Star said:
I always say I'm going to leave. We'll be back this year though.

Sounds kind of like Herpes

:lol:

SpinmasterK · Aug 27, 2010

We have secured the permits for the Peak walkway. More info on this and a few other projects in an upcoming Killington Insider Post next week.
http://www.killington.com/winter/beast/blog

Food for thought! Walking from the Bay 5 parking lot to the K-1 Lodge is the equivalent of walking from the top of the North Ridge Triple back to the top of the K-1 Gondola.

Highway Star · Aug 27, 2010

Seems like much more info (with maps) is going to be on the ACT250 website soon, hopefully?

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/site/cfm/act250/detail.cfm?ID=25448

Links don't work right now.

ozzy · Aug 27, 2010

SpinmasterK said:
We have secured the permits for the Peak walkway. More info on this and a few other projects in an upcoming Killington Insider Post next week.
http://www.killington.com/winter/beast/blog

Food for thought! Walking from the Bay 5 parking lot to the K-1 Lodge is the equivalent of walking from the top of the North Ridge Triple back to the top of the K-1 Gondola.

There's a Bay 5?

Highway Star · Aug 27, 2010

So, can you ski on the new walkway once it is covered in snow??

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/Imaging/Planning/1R0542-10/exhibit%20%234%20-%20Location%20Map%204%20-%20Peak%20Walkway%20&%20Huts%20Relocate.pdf

Killington is going to open before Sunday River this season.

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