Gas Price

riverc0il · Apr 28, 2011

ctenidae said:
More truth to this than you think. Seems to be pretty decent evidence popping up that home ownership isn't such a great thing- it may slow the velocity of money, it makes the workforce much, much less mobile, and it can lead to exagerated swings in consumer behavior.

Quoted for truth. My boss occasionally talks to me about my future with the company. My response is usually something like "only if I can get a $20,000 bonus to cover losses associated with the sale of my home." Essentially, we aren't moving anywhere for the next ten years whether we want to or not. That loss of mobility really has to hurt. Interesting point on the velocity of money. You bank a ton for a down payment and then make higher monthly payments than if you were renting and you have sales tax (and some of us, condo fees), etc. That is certainly a lot of money going into home ownership rather than other purchases.

riverc0il · Apr 28, 2011

St. Bear said:
I would argue that that's not necessarily a bad thing. Too many people got accustomed to getting a new car every 3 years and eating out on a weekly basis, when that should be a luxury for the (moderately) wealthy, not middle America.

It is interesting the dichotomy between the "ought" and what actually happens. But if we all lived frugally and didn't upgrade our "stuff" frequently and splurge on eating out and stuff, the economy wouldn't grow as fast nor would innovation provide so much cool stuff that we now have available.

I love Marketplace Money on NPR, great show. These days it seems like every week features topics on saving more money. Which is a good thing.... we all really should have several months worth of expenses in the bank, a savings account, and a few diversified retirement accounts. But if everyone did this, our economy would be very different. We would all have to make very different choices.

Warp Daddy · Apr 28, 2011

campgottagopee said:
100% agree...not pointing fingers at all.

Can't afford it , don't buy it.

Living under ones means , paying cash , investing for the long run and being DEBT free is the key to building NET WORTH and being HNW is achievable WITH discipline .

Forget stuff -- go for the long run , learn the diff between a NEED and a WANT and to hell with the Jones--- cuz frankly they don't give a damn .

deadheadskier · Apr 28, 2011

campgottagopee said:
Could you imagine where our country would be if the banks 'forced' us to be financially responsible...what a thought.

They actually try and 'force' you into being less financially responsible.

My wife and I had to move for work in June of 2008. The bank melt down in the upcoming fall and a massive upcoming recession was being predicted in the winter. We had saved up a sizable down payment to buy a home. When we saw impending doom, we decided to purchase a modest condo, less than half the value of the mortgage we were approved for. We wanted to be extra cautious so that we could easily afford our place on the lesser of our two incomes. Figured we'd stay conservative and ride out the recession before buying the size home we truly can afford that is adequately sized to raise a family in. Our condo will become an investment property when we upgrade to that.

Because we went with such a small mortgage, we were penalized with a half percent higher mortgage. Bank told us if we wanted to go out and buy a bigger place, they'd give us a better rate. :blink:

snoseek · Apr 28, 2011

Warp Daddy said:
Living under ones means , paying cash , investing for the long run and being DEBT free is the key to building NET WORTH and being HNW is achievable WITH discipline .

Forget stuff -- go for the long run , learn the diff between a NEED and a WANT and to hell with the Jones--- cuz frankly they don't give a damn .

Such great words of wisdom. I've tried so hard to live by this and for the most part done pretty good. The Jones are probably jealous of the stuff I've been able to do because of that. Cash is King! :daffy:

snoseek · Apr 28, 2011

deadheadskier said:
They actually try and 'force' you into being less financially responsible.

My wife and I had to move for work in June of 2008. The bank melt down in the upcoming fall and a massive upcoming recession was being predicted in the winter. We had saved up a sizable down payment to buy a home. When we saw impending doom, we decided to purchase a modest condo, less than half the value of the mortgage we were approved for. We wanted to be extra cautious so that we could easily afford our place on the lesser of our two incomes. Figured we'd stay conservative and ride out the recession before buying the size home we truly can afford that is adequately sized to raise a family in. Our condo will become an investment property when we upgrade to that.

Because we went with such a small mortgage, we were penalized with a half percent higher mortgage. Bank told us if we wanted to go out and buy a bigger place, they'd give us a better rate. :blink:

This also is words of wisdom. We would have a much more stable albeit gradual economy if more folks thought like you. Slow and steady is fine in my book. Crashes suck all around.

SkiFanE · Apr 28, 2011

Warp Daddy said:
Living under ones means , paying cash , investing for the long run and being DEBT free is the key to building NET WORTH and being HNW is achievable WITH discipline .

Forget stuff -- go for the long run , learn the diff between a NEED and a WANT and to hell with the Jones--- cuz frankly they don't give a damn .

Yes. And I have decided that skiing is a NEED. Or I'm Jonesing when the snow flies.

deadheadskier · Apr 28, 2011

Out of curiosity, those who want $5 gas to force the advancement of fuel efficiency and public transportation; what kinds of cars do you own in your household? I know rivercoil and snoseek drive very fuel efficient vehicles. Do you drive one of the numerous 35mpg + car models available today? I certainly hope you walk the talk. Otherwise it's a do as I say, not as I do argument.

tjf67 · Apr 29, 2011

deadheadskier said:
They actually try and 'force' you into being less financially responsible.

My wife and I had to move for work in June of 2008. The bank melt down in the upcoming fall and a massive upcoming recession was being predicted in the winter. We had saved up a sizable down payment to buy a home. When we saw impending doom, we decided to purchase a modest condo, less than half the value of the mortgage we were approved for. We wanted to be extra cautious so that we could easily afford our place on the lesser of our two incomes. Figured we'd stay conservative and ride out the recession before buying the size home we truly can afford that is adequately sized to raise a family in. Our condo will become an investment property when we upgrade to that.

Because we went with such a small mortgage, we were penalized with a half percent higher mortgage. Bank told us if we wanted to go out and buy a bigger place, they'd give us a better rate. :blink:

Sombody stuck it in your ass. You don't pay a higher percentage because the loan amount is low.

riverc0il · Apr 29, 2011

deadheadskier said:
Out of curiosity, those who want $5 gas to force the advancement of fuel efficiency and public transportation; what kinds of cars do you own in your household? I know rivercoil and snoseek drive very fuel efficient vehicles. Do you drive one of the numerous 35mpg + car models available today? I certainly hope you walk the talk. Otherwise it's a do as I say, not as I do argument.

Actually, I think it would be a more convincing position if my car was NOT fuel efficient. I might be less likely to hold such a position if I was feeling the pinch, from a perception stand point.

Both of the cars I have owned have gotten 35 MPG highway (or better). Purchase prices on those econo boxes were $5k and $8k. Probably will up to the new Impreza when it goes on sale which is at 36, though I am really disappointed I can't look at an Elantra (40 MPG) but we need something with a little more space. I always find it ironic that excepting hybrid/diesel, the most fuel efficient vehicles are the cheapest.

campgottagopee · Apr 29, 2011

tjf67 said:
Like Donald Trump?

:smile:

Glenn · Apr 29, 2011

riverc0il said:
As far as rooting for high gas prices equating to rooting for a recession.... who knows, maybe domestic innovation caused by transportation cost influenced inflation could kick start the economy in new and exciting directions.

I think we're somewhat seeing that now. There's a pretty big influence on MPG's these days with new cars. I'm a bit of a vehicle nerd and I listen to a lot of car podcasts. All the makers are boasting MPGs on their new vehicles. I mean, even the Ram ads talk about the truck getting 20MPG highway.

One thing to remember though...cars aren't smartphones. I think there are a lot of pundits, who live in a city and think automakers can magically make a car that gets 60mpg...or an electric car with a 400 mile range. And every yearly update (like the new iPhone that comes out each year) will be way better than the last. Vehicles are complex these days. And it takes a huge capital investment to make them. Just think of all the retooling that has to happen when new model comes out. It's staggering.

campgottagopee · Apr 29, 2011

Warp Daddy said:
Living under ones means , paying cash , investing for the long run and being DEBT free is the key to building NET WORTH and being HNW is achievable WITH discipline .

Forget stuff -- go for the long run , learn the diff between a NEED and a WANT and to hell with the Jones--- cuz frankly they don't give a damn .

Just look at this simple poll...how do you pay for gas. 55% w/ credit card, I hate credit cards...hate 'em. Just dumped 80 in cash in my big V8 Nissan Titan this a.m.....gotta get ready to go to the Chiefs game in Cuse after work today, comp tickets of course :wink:

hammer · Apr 29, 2011

campgottagopee said:
Just look at this simple poll...how do you pay for gas. 55% w/ credit card, I hate credit cards...hate 'em. Just dumped 80 in cash in my big V8 Nissan Titan this a.m.....gotta get ready to go to the Chiefs game in Cuse after work today, comp tickets of course :wink:

I (like many others) do that out of convenience and for the cash back...credit card companies call me a deadbeat because I always pay my bill in full each month. Aside from the convenience factor I'm not big on credit cards either.

I don't like the high gas prices but none of my vehicles get great (>30 MPG) gas mileage so I really can't complain...can I?

I don't know how people handle having all kinds of debt. If I were in a less fortunate situation financially I'd just adjust my lifestyle...I could never imagine living beyond my means.

drjeff · Apr 29, 2011

hammer said:
I (like many others) do that out of convenience and for the cash back...credit card companies call me a deadbeat because I always pay my bill in full each month. Aside from the convenience factor I'm not big on credit cards either.

I don't like the high gas prices but none of my vehicles get great (>30 MPG) gas mileage so I really can't complain...can I?

I don't know how people handle having all kinds of debt. If I were in a less fortunate situation financially I'd just adjust my lifestyle...I could never imagine living beyond my means.

unfortunately that is seeming to be more and more of the minority opinion these days

campgottagopee · Apr 29, 2011

hammer said:
I (like many others) do that out of convenience and for the cash back...credit card companies call me a deadbeat because I always pay my bill in full each month. Aside from the convenience factor I'm not big on credit cards either.

I don't like the high gas prices but none of my vehicles get great (>30 MPG) gas mileage so I really can't complain...can I?

I don't know how people handle having all kinds of debt. If I were in a less fortunate situation financially I'd just adjust my lifestyle...I could never imagine living beyond my means.

I know, and I get it.

My MAJOR dislike of CC is due to the FACT I got in trouble with them as a kid while living the High Life. Not proud of that, but it's the truth. I still have credit cards, and do use them, but only when on vacation instead of walking around with a pile of hundies.

My pops gave me a piece of advise...never buy anything on intended/potential income. Took me a while to figure out what he meant, but I get it now.

deadheadskier · Apr 29, 2011

riverc0il said:
Actually, I think it would be a more convincing position if my car was NOT fuel efficient. I might be less likely to hold such a position if I was feeling the pinch, from a perception stand point.

You might feel the pinch more if you drove an SUV, but if someone thinks reducing our consumption of gasoline is so important that we need $5 gas to force innovation, they certainly should currently be doing their part by driving the most fuel efficient vehicle available to suit their needs.

deadheadskier · Apr 29, 2011

tjf67 said:
Sombody stuck it in your ass. You don't pay a higher percentage because the loan amount is low.

We thought the same It's actually a common practice with small mortgages. Many banks do it to cover their overhead costs (takes the bank the same amount of work to initiate a 100K loan as a 300K loan) as well as making the loan more profitable for them.

The sticking it in our ass part was that by the time we were informed of this .5% adjustment, we were way to far along in the process to stop and hunt for another loan.

SkiFanE · Apr 29, 2011

deadheadskier said:
Out of curiosity, those who want $5 gas to force the advancement of fuel efficiency and public transportation; what kinds of cars do you own in your household? I know rivercoil and snoseek drive very fuel efficient vehicles. Do you drive one of the numerous 35mpg + car models available today? I certainly hope you walk the talk. Otherwise it's a do as I say, not as I do argument.

Not me. We have an AWD minivan - 3 kids and dog, most expensive vehicle I've ever had, and I hate it, pure necessity (drove north nearly every weekend from Nov-Apr). Probably 18-22mpg, not sure. And a small station wagon, 11 years old, around 25mpg. Our work commutes are short, we don't consume much gas unless we head north.

mlctvt · Apr 29, 2011

If you really think about it all of this talk about fuel efficiency is kind of ridiculous on a ski forum isn't it? Can you think of another business that uses such a large amount of energy? yes there are many but Downhill Skiing isn't and never will be a "green" sport.

I was riding on a lift this winter and the guy next to me said "talk about carbon footprint, this is all carbon" I have to agree. Fuel to get to the mountain, massive amounts of diesel or electricity made from burning fossil fuels and/or nuclear power to run the lifts and lodges.

then there are the second homeowners like many of us that have to keep two homes warm all winter. It's it enough to make anyone feel guilty? The fact is we are using more energy than any other country in the world and many of us skiers are using more than the average American. We are the worst of the worst.
I've even had friends that are living an extremely green life call me out on the second home. I guess I justified it by saying that I purchased a used home and didn't use resources to build a new one :smile:

I'm not going to sell my car and get another one that gets 5mpg more. Purchasing a brand new car would be far less "green" than keeping my old car going. The resources needed to make a new car are also huge, nobody thinks about that.

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