dmc
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Definitely... Batteries, Solar panels, fuel cells and stuff..
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Buying "Made In USA" only
- Thread starter legalskier
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Definitely... Batteries, Solar panels, fuel cells and stuff..
and we'll turn the tables on OPEC and make them pay a premium for the solar panels :lol:
dmc
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This will not happen in any of our lifetimes. Only 10-15% of Chinese people are actually workers in factories. Most are still peasants. It will probably take over 100 years for their standard of living to increase to a level anywhere near ours. At the same time the US standard is dropping. Maybe we'll meet in the middle in 50 years
.I work in the electronics manufacturing industry. Skilled Chinese machine operators make about 55cents per hour compared to about $20.00 hour plus benefits here. We recently quoted a job that we knew we couldn't win since it was a high volume product that was alos being quoted by offshore companies. Just for curiousity we quoted Chinese manufacturing. The Chinese company quoted a cost so low that it just covered the material costs for a completed product. When we asked where is the labor portion the Chinese salesperson said the labor was "free". Apparently the Chinese government was subsidizing the labor since the factory was in an area they wanted to expand manufacturing in. How do you compete when the labor is given away!
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I like buying stuff in the USA, when possible, but Im' sure I have a lot of crap made in other countries.
I also like supporting small business, i.e. go out to eat at a local restaurant or a small chain vs. a national chain, and go to my local hardware store vs. Home Depot (although I do end up at HD quite a bit, the selection is just ridiculous).
I also like supporting small business, i.e. go out to eat at a local restaurant or a small chain vs. a national chain, and go to my local hardware store vs. Home Depot (although I do end up at HD quite a bit, the selection is just ridiculous).
Black Phantom
Active member
Really? How well did Evergreen work out for the Commonwealth of MA?
ctenidae
Active member
We're behind Europe on deployment of both wind and solar by quite a bit, both in physical installations and in subsidies and tariff regimes. In Europe, though it varies form country to country, there's a stated quantity oc renewable capacity they want to see built, and there is a government mandated tariff to cover the cost and provide a sufficient return to the developers and operators. Some countries do it better- Italy passes the cost on to the consumers (if they hit all targets it's a 7% increase over 5 years). Some do it poorly- Spain pays the tariff as a line item on the federal budget (which they slashed retroactively whe they went broke- guess who's building wind in Spain now). The US gives either a 30% construction cost grant, which is decent, or a production tax credit. Neither is very good for spuring development- can't get 70% financing on the variable revenues coming from wind (and no one is signing up long-term contracts at good prices), and the way the cash flows work you're not generating income to offset the tax against, so you have to try to sell teh tax equity, which no one is buying.
We're also well behind in terms of manufacturing solar panels (China does it better and cheaper) and wind turbines (Germany builds the most, sinc they 're good engineers and most are used in Europe). We should be spending money on research, but we're hardly dooing that naymore, and have cut tax breaks for R&D. It'd be awesome for green tech to be the next US boom, but I'm afraid the cards are stacked against us. China's building all new infrastructure so they can afford to buildwith the latest technology. European countries (one of the few benefits of socialism) can mandate new tech and push retrofitting of old and building of new. In the US, we're up against the largest, oldest, most built-in and extensive system, and it's a bear to change it.
/rant off
ta&idaho
New member
Prescription drugs sold in Canada are usually manufactured in the same facilities (and using the same ingredient sources) as prescription drugs sold in the United States. For each branded drug, the profits go to the same drug company regardless of where you buy the drug (although profits are higher for U.S. sales). The situation is slightly more complicated with generic drugs, but generic prices tend to be competitive in the U.S.
dmc
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yeah... US/Mexico boarder towns are filling up with older folks who move there for the weather and access to cheap drugs and procedures..
I was talking to someone that went to Mexico to have dental work done for cheap...
thorski
New member
If they legalized it Mexico would probably be a much nicer place.
As would the U.S.8)
China is kicking our ass in manufacturing solar panels and everything else that goes with it. Where do you think Evergreen is moving their production ... ?
ChileMass
Active member
This will not happen in any of our lifetimes. Only 10-15% of Chinese people are actually workers in factories. Most are still peasants. It will probably take over 100 years for their standard of living to increase to a level anywhere near ours. At the same time the US standard is dropping. Maybe we'll meet in the middle in 50 years
I work in the electronics manufacturing industry. Skilled Chinese machine operators make about 55cents per hour compared to about $20.00 hour plus benefits here. We recently quoted a job that we knew we couldn't win since it was a high volume product that was alos being quoted by offshore companies. Just for curiousity we quoted Chinese manufacturing. The Chinese company quoted a cost so low that it just covered the material costs for a completed product. When we asked where is the labor portion the Chinese salesperson said the labor was "free". Apparently the Chinese government was subsidizing the labor since the factory was in an area they wanted to expand manufacturing in. How do you compete when the labor is given away!
Facsinating and yet, not surprising. I work for the largest product testing company in the world and our clients are manufacturers of every kind of product that comes out of a factory - from shoes to toys to furniture to consumer electronics, medical devices, wireless products, semiconductor tools, industrial systems, you name it. 20 years ago there were dozens of mid-sized original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) in the electronics sector right here in New England, and we had a booming local testing business. Now, probably 2/3 is gone to China and elsewhere in Asia. I keep telling myself that the economists say that free markets will beat subsidized markets every time, but I'm not so sure about that. Used to be the cheap stuff was being made in China (textiles, small electronics, appliances, etc). Now they export cars, HVAC systems, and even sophisticated medical systems that we need to keep to have any sort of manufacturing base here in the US. As somebody said earlier, I don't see a new technology boom on the horizon to lift us in the next 10 years, and sustainable energy is a joke right now. Solar, wind, biomass, etc are all waaaaaay too expensive to use on a commercial/industrial scale and will remain so until the govt decides to stop subsidizing oil companies (!!!!) and put some money into new energy. And relying on healthcare as a job driver is ridiculous. Unless you're a doctor, or a nurse with seniority or an adminstrator, those jobs will be low-paying. So we have great hospitals, equipment and doctors that no one can afford. If you don't have a really good job with benefits, our gold-plated healthcare system might as well be on the moon.
I work with a lot of US companies whose manufacturing is in Asia. R&D is largely still here, and as long as corporate intellectual property stays here, so will the corporations and those jobs. But the 6-figure jobs for the next generation will be in engineering, design, finance or executive management, so be sure to pick the right major in college. Oh, and learn Mandarin Chinese as a second language......
ChileMass
Active member
So back to the original question:
Would you pay more for a product stamped "Made in America"?
Interestingly, my company (a test lab) is considering coming out with a certification label for manufacturers so they can demonstrate "country of origin" in case locals want to buy local. Would you support a company more if you knew their product was made locally?
Would you pay more for a product stamped "Made in America"?
Interestingly, my company (a test lab) is considering coming out with a certification label for manufacturers so they can demonstrate "country of origin" in case locals want to buy local. Would you support a company more if you knew their product was made locally?
RootDKJ
New member
thorski
New member
Every company i do work for that makes stuff in the USA has found a little niche in which they can survive, and they are all hanging on by the skin of their teeth.
The next boom in the economy will come when China starts launching carriers and a new arms race starts.
The next boom in the economy will come when China starts launching carriers and a new arms race starts.
ChileMass
Active member
I hear you - the problem is that if there's a big drop in covered people, big healthcare providers won't have a market. There's a lot less money insuring people working for reduced or minimal wages. We need to maintain what's left of our manufacturing base and find new technologies to create millions of replacement jobs. That's a tough order with China and India having so large a cost advantage.
I will pay more for good quality. If "made in America" stood for good quality in the particular product it would influence my buying decision.
mondeo
New member
Why is it the right direction? The stuff that's cheaper to get made overseas would generally have to be made at minimum wage in this country to be even close to price competitive (because if it was cheaper at min wage here, it would be made here.) Last I checked, under 1% of the adult workforce was employed at minimum wage. That 10% unemployment? It's because people aren't willing to work minimum wage jobs (when they have 2 years of unemployment benefits paying them more than minimum wage.) F low cost manufacturing, it would bring this country down.
Boeing is the largest exporter in the U.S. AMD's spin-off of a manufacturing semiconductor company is building a multi-billion dollar plant in New York, the north end of a pretty significant tech corridor (IBM's Fishkill plant at the southern end.) Look at the companies that make up the DJIA. 18 out of 30 are still manufacturing companies heavily based in the U.S., and anything that isn't done in the U.S. is the easy stuff. High tech stuff is what we want here, not some 15 cent piece of crap souvenier manufacturing jobs.
Looking for the next wave? Screw solar and wind, they'll never be able to fulfill all that much of the world's energy issues. Fully fund a U.S. effort for development of production-capable nuclear fusion technology by 2028. Give the associated technology an export classification that requires a liscense to export outside of the 51 states (there isn't much information we restrict from sharing with Canada.) The current plan is a functional multinational fusion plant in 2033, funded with a few billion per year. If we spend $30bn as a country, per year, it would really push the pace of development, it's nothing on the scale of the national budget (especially considering you get about 30% of it back in taxes anyways,) and it gives the U.S. a huge lead in the go-to means of power production for the second half of this century.
Incidentally, for those that don't work with anything high-tech, a lot of the stuff that the world really wants can't be designed or produced by other countries, outside of countries that developed the technology indigineously. Key aerospace, semiconductor, materials, etc., technology has to be kept within the states unless you get specific U.S. government approval (which, in my experience, is usually tied to securing foreign sales - like final assembly of F-16s in Poland in order to sell Poland F-16s instead of Eurofighters.) Every presentation I make has to be marked with an export classification, even though it's low enough sensitivity to be shared with India (and likely China.) Not too worried about other countries catching up technologically with us for quite some time.
