Mount Snow: Inside Track

Newpylong · Aug 2, 2018

sull1102 said:
Just reading up on Hunter's great expansion project this summer and the snowmaking they are installing got me wondering, does Mount Snow have any automated guns on the hill and do you plan to go that way in the future as more Polecats start to cross the ten year mark?

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Each Polecat is ~$30K a piece and already a sunk cost. If maintained properly the only thing those things will need are new compressors (short change), nozzles, and occasional hoses when they rot. They will go a long time. There really is little incentive to replace or integrate automation with those things - big bucks for little ROI. If the line is already charged and the hoses connected (which they usually are) one guy can literally go down a trail by himself in a sled and turn them on. Automation really shines on a new installation on areas you frequently need to resurface - like that trail at Hunter.

FBGM · Aug 8, 2018

Automation in snowmaking is almost a given and no brained anywhere these days. If Mt Blow me better got their heads out of the sand they would realize the ROI on this. But ROI is 3 to many letters then those people can understand.

IceEidolon · Aug 8, 2018

If you run a gun nightly then automation makes sense. If you need to automate fifty towers, and you only run 'em to open and occasionally after, the extra cost isn't worth it. The maintenance isn't worth it. The comm hassle isn't worth it.

There's a reason smaller mountains automate more - the more you run a given trail, the more you get out of the automation. If you don't run a gun frequently it's not worth automating.

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sull1102 · Aug 8, 2018

FBGM said:
Automation in snowmaking is almost a given and no brained anywhere these days. If Mt Blow me better got their heads out of the sand they would realize the ROI on this. But ROI is 3 to many letters then those people can understand.

You do have a point to some degree, only thing is that Snow went all in with the Polecats back in 07-09 or so. That was just a couple years before automatic systems really became the clear way of the future. I'm sure if they installed the same system nowadays they would go automatic.

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drjeff · Aug 9, 2018

Having witnessed how quickly Mount Snow can light up or shut down a trail of fan guns (1 snowmaker on a snowmobile can typically handle a mile long trail such as Snowdance in 20 minutes or so) or what their core snowmaking crew can do for late season resurfacing efforts where typically 3 or 4 of them are running 150-200 guns on multiple core trails with a pretty quick start up and shut down, and then take the extra $$ that would have to be spent to replace and/or upgrade the existing polecats to fully automated and put that $$ towards the looming snowmaking expansion to trails currently not covered with snowmaking.

I don't doubt that there are certainly some advantages to having atleast some core trails fully automated where automation will get you a few extra minutes of run time at the beginning and end of a snowmaking run (especially both as temps drop at the beginning of a post thaw freeze up situation or early season start a trail time or trying to squeeze a few extra minutes out as warming temps arrive), but the reality is with a GOOD crew at a major mountain, the amount of extra run time over the course of a season that an automated system will get you isn't a large amount of hours at all

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tumbler · Aug 9, 2018

Unless automation has come a long way in 15 years it was pretty useless. You still need a snowmaker standing at each hydrant making sure everything turns on correctly and is making good snow. Might as well just turn it on yourself. Plus all the frozen hoses when the drains weren't working or frozen. I'd rather fire up a tower with 15' hoses than watch it try to automatically do it.

ss20 · Aug 9, 2018

FBGM said:
Automation in snowmaking is almost a given and no brained anywhere these days. If Mt Blow me better got their heads out of the sand they would realize the ROI on this. But ROI is 3 to many letters then those people can understand.

Point on the doll where Peaks touched you...

ss20 · Aug 9, 2018

FBGM said:
Automation in snowmaking is almost a given and no brained anywhere these days. If Mt Blow me better got their heads out of the sand they would realize the ROI on this. But ROI is 3 to many letters then those people can understand.

Point on the doll where Peaks touched you...

icecoast1 · Aug 9, 2018

tumbler said:
Unless automation has come a long way in 15 years it was pretty useless. You still need a snowmaker standing at each hydrant making sure everything turns on correctly and is making good snow. Might as well just turn it on yourself. Plus all the frozen hoses when the drains weren't working or frozen. I'd rather fire up a tower with 15' hoses than watch it try to automatically do it.

Yes you still need snowmakers on the hill but you need a lot less with automation. If the gun is completely automated you dont even need to be at the gun to turn it on or see what it is doing. It's not useless at all if you know how to use it

cdskier · Aug 9, 2018

ss20 said:
Point on the doll where Peaks touched you...

I almost choked on my breakfast sandwich from laughing at your comment!

machski · Aug 9, 2018

I can see semi-automatic tower guns becoming the norm moving forward. But fully automated systems require either complete wifi coverage on the mountain or comm lines run to every gun location. So given the comm issues, I could see fully automatic at small areas where wifi coverage could be easily accomplished (and likely smaller areas would benefit more from smaller snowmaking crews (payroll) needed) and large areas that cover a lot of terrain going the semi route (needing just 1 snowmaker to light up a trail) with perhaps a few centralized trails fully automated (for example, the easiest route down that an area may want to resurface most often being fully automated). I cannot see an area like Mount Snow or larger going 100% fully automated ever.

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FBGM · Aug 9, 2018

tumbler said:
Unless automation has come a long way in 15 years it was pretty useless. You still need a snowmaker standing at each hydrant making sure everything turns on correctly and is making good snow. Might as well just turn it on yourself. Plus all the frozen hoses when the drains weren't working or frozen. I'd rather fire up a tower with 15' hoses than watch it try to automatically do it.

False, actuator opens and closes hydrant. Sit back and click your mouse to make snow. Crack open a cold one.

FBGM · Aug 9, 2018

ss20 said:
Point on the doll where Peaks touched you...

Same place your wife did. 4/10. Would not want again.

icecoast1 · Aug 9, 2018

machski said:
I can see semi-automatic tower guns becoming the norm moving forward. But fully automated systems require either complete wifi coverage on the mountain or comm lines run to every gun location. So given the comm issues, I could see fully automatic at small areas where wifi coverage could be easily accomplished (and likely smaller areas would benefit more from smaller snowmaking crews (payroll) needed) and large areas that cover a lot of terrain going the semi route (needing just 1 snowmaker to light up a trail) with perhaps a few centralized trails fully automated (for example, the easiest route down that an area may want to resurface most often being fully automated). I cannot see an area like Mount Snow or larger going 100% fully automated ever.

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There are places overseas that dwarf mount snow in size that run fully auto systems. But its probably not feasible for Mount Snow to do it at this point at least with the fans, hkd has a nice semi auto system that would be a huge upgrade for their hkd tower guns

GregoryIsaacs · Aug 9, 2018

FBGM said:
Same place your wife did. 4/10. Would not want again.

You're not funny.

sull1102 · Aug 9, 2018

machski said:
I can see semi-automatic tower guns becoming the norm moving forward. But fully automated systems require either complete wifi coverage on the mountain or comm lines run to every gun location. So given the comm issues, I could see fully automatic at small areas where wifi coverage could be easily accomplished (and likely smaller areas would benefit more from smaller snowmaking crews (payroll) needed) and large areas that cover a lot of terrain going the semi route (needing just 1 snowmaker to light up a trail) with perhaps a few centralized trails fully automated (for example, the easiest route down that an area may want to resurface most often being fully automated). I cannot see an area like Mount Snow or larger going 100% fully automated ever.

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So with the advances in networking and especially mesh wifi networking it's actually super easy to make a WiFi network stretch over all of Mount Snow. Especially since this network isn't more than an intranet and does not need to reach out to the internet unless they want to get super fancy and control the system from home or a cell phone.

There's tons of advantages to automation already but as we move forward there will be even more reasons to make the switch.

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cdskier · Aug 9, 2018

GregoryIsaacs said:
You're not funny.

He does it intentionally and people just keep taking the bait by acknowledging him. I'd say over 90% of his posts are either intentionally inflammatory or just plain stupid.

sull1102 · Aug 9, 2018

machski said:
I can see semi-automatic tower guns becoming the norm moving forward. But fully automated systems require either complete wifi coverage on the mountain or comm lines run to every gun location. So given the comm issues, I could see fully automatic at small areas where wifi coverage could be easily accomplished (and likely smaller areas would benefit more from smaller snowmaking crews (payroll) needed) and large areas that cover a lot of terrain going the semi route (needing just 1 snowmaker to light up a trail) with perhaps a few centralized trails fully automated (for example, the easiest route down that an area may want to resurface most often being fully automated). I cannot see an area like Mount Snow or larger going 100% fully automated ever.

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So with the advances in networking and especially mesh wifi networking it's actually super easy to make a WiFi network stretch over all of Mount Snow. Especially since this network isn't more than an intranet and does not need to reach out to the internet unless they want to get super fancy and control the system from home or a cell phone.

There's tons of advantages to automation already but as we move forward there will be even more reasons to make the switch.

Now back to Mount Snow since I have completely derailed this thread... I'm curious if there has been more thought given to Snow Lake Lodge and it's future. I know it is not long for this world, if I remember correctly the idea was in the next 5-10 years it will be gone. With that being said, is there any investment going into the building? It just looks like it's starting to get dilapidated and it's one of the first things a guest sees depending on where they enter the resort from 100.

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mbedle · Aug 9, 2018

cdskier said:
I almost choked on my breakfast sandwich from laughing at your comment!

It was good one...

GregoryIsaacs · Aug 9, 2018

cdskier said:
He does it intentionally and people just keep taking the bait by acknowledging him. I'd say over 90% of his posts are either intentionally inflammatory or just plain stupid.

Oh I know. But if you're going to be a troll you need to at least be somewhat humorous..... looks like he lost his touch!

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