Finding Gary a new bike!

MR. evil · Jun 10, 2008

Greg said:
Seems like you fall right in the middle of the height range for the 16" Ibex hardtails. But I really don't know what the hell I'm talking about so keep that in mind... :razz:

Height wise a 16" would fit like a glove. But you also need to think about lenght of the Top tube which IMO is the most import factor for comfort. If it is too long you will have to lean over more to reach the bars. Some people like to lean, some don't. Typically XC (cross country) bikes will have longer TT compared to AM (All Mountain) bikes. Longer TT ussually make for a bike to climbs well but is sketchy going down hill while shorter TT can hinder climbing while improving going down.

The Ibex Trophy HT's are sweet bikes!

Greg · Jun 10, 2008

MR. evil said:
Height wise a 16" would fit like a glove. But you also need to think about lenght of the Top tube which IMO is the most import factor for comfort. If it is too long you will have to lean over more to reach the bars. Some people like to lean, some don't. Typically XC (cross country) bikes will have longer TT compared to AM (All Mountain) bikes. Longer TT ussually make for a bike to climbs well but is sketchy going down hill while shorter TT can hinder climbing while improving going down.

The Ibex Trophy HT's are sweet bikes!

Thanks Tim. I knew there was more to it. It looks like the TT length is almost the same for both the Trophy and Alpine series so the 16" would still be the best fit for Gary at 5'7", no? I would think for beginner riders, it's better to go shorter with the TT length to facilitate on those "scary" downhills, right?

tjf67 · Jun 10, 2008

gmcunni said:
LOL - you suggested i check out what they had @ dicks

I know but they do have some better models I think.

MR. evil · Jun 10, 2008

Greg said:
Thanks Tim. I knew there was more to it. It looks like the TT length is almost the same for both the Trophy and Alpine series so the 16" would still be the best fit for Gary at 5'7", no? I would think for beginner riders, it's better to go shorter with the TT length to facilitate on those "scary" downhills, right?

It is not that simple. It depends on what type of riding you do, and also what you find most comfortable.

wa-loaf · Jun 10, 2008

If the top tube length is close you can swap out the handlebar stems to fine tune the fit, so I wouldn't obsess over this. We are still talking about a relatively low end bike for riding single track and fire roads. If he gets hooked, he's going to want to move up anyway.

Greg · Jun 10, 2008

MR. evil said:
It is not that simple. It depends on what type of riding you do, and also what you find most comfortable.

Okay, but at what point are we over-thinking things here? Is an inch or two difference in a bike's geometry really going to make that much of a difference to Gary who is just starting out? Isn't it going to take a few years of hard riding for him to build enough skill to even know what type of riding he's going to eventually settle into?

Kinda like the newbie to bumps going out and buying bump skis, ya know? Yes Tim, I went there... :razz:

wa-loaf said:
We are still talking about a relatively low end bike for riding single track and fire roads.

Now I'm confused. I thought the Ibex bikes were generally considered pretty good for the money.

wa-loaf · Jun 10, 2008

Greg said:
Now I'm confused. I thought the Ibex bikes were generally considered pretty good for the money.

Yes, they are. I said relatively (I'm assuming he's still sicking to the $500 price point). He's still looking at the low end of a high end product. I just think we are over complicating things when all he wants is a good solid bike to get out on the trails with. Fit is a concern, but we shouldn't over think it. The best thing is to get him out on some wheels and riding. If the top tube length isn't perfect you can compensate for that in other ways, by sliding the seat forward or back and swapping out longer or shorter stems and even putting downhill handlebars on if he wants a more upright position.

gmcunni · Jun 10, 2008

Greg said:
Okay, but at what point are we over-thinking things here?

Can't speak for everyone but i've been over-thinking this for several days now! :smash:

MR. evil · Jun 10, 2008

Greg said:
Okay, but at what point are we over-thinking things here? Is an inch or two difference in a bike's geometry really going to make that much of a difference to Gary who is just starting out? Isn't it going to take a few years of hard riding for him to build enough skill to even know what type of riding he's going to eventually settle into?

Kinda like the newbie to bumps going out and buying bump skis, ya know? Yes Tim, I went there... :razz:

Now I'm confused. I thought the Ibex bikes were generally considered pretty good for the money.

An inch or two can be a HUGE factor in comfort. If you not comfortable on the bike, you won't ride as much. I was having back problems from being so stretched out on my old HT. While I was saving for a new bike I swapped out the 100mm stem for an 80mm stem. That 20mm made a huge differance (thats less than an inch) and let me ride that bike for a couple of more months.

Greg · Jun 10, 2008

MR. evil said:
An inch or two can be a HUGE factor in comfort. If you not comfortable on the bike, you won't ride as much. I was having back problems from being so stretched out on my old HT. While I was saving for a new bike I swapped out the 100mm stem for an 80mm stem. That 20mm made a huge differance (thats less than an inch) and let me ride that bike for a couple of more months.

Yeah, but my point is how much experience did you have at the point you realized that the shorter stem might help? What I'm saying is for someone starting out, it seems we're getting a little too deep. The same thing can happen with new skiers; a new skier is going to see little benefit from custom footbeds, or specialty skis for example. There's a certain level of skill that needs to be attained first. Maybe I have it all wrong, but it seems to me the most important thing is for Gary to get out on something solid that will last a few years and then he can tweak his set up. But again, I really don't know what I'm talking about.

MR. evil · Jun 10, 2008

Greg said:
Yeah, but my point is how much experience did you have at the point you realized that the shorter stem might help? What I'm saying is for someone starting out, it seems we're getting a little too deep. The same thing can happen with new skiers; a new skier is going to see little benefit from custom footbeds, or specialty skis for example. There's a certain level of skill that needs to be attained first. Maybe I have it all wrong, but it seems to me the most important thing is for Gary to get out on something solid that will last a few years and then he can tweak his set up. But again, I really don't know what I'm talking about.

To bring this into skiing terms, would you ever recomend that a new skier buy uncomfortable boots? Didn't think so. He won't need the the best boots, or even good ones, but if his boots are uncomfortable he will not ski as much. Same for bikes.

Regardless of skill level bike fit is a huge factor when selecting a bike. Even when buying low end stuff, a good saleman at a bike shop will spend alot of time with you making sure they put you in a bike that fits well and is comfortable.

Greg · Jun 10, 2008

MR. evil said:
To bring this into skiing terms, would you ever recomend that a new skier buy uncomfortable boots? Didn't think so. He won't need the the best boots, or even good ones, but if his boots are uncomfortable he will not ski as much. Same for bikes.

A bit of a stretch. no? Nobody's suggesting he gets a 20" frame or anything. The ill-fitting boot thing might be a valid analogy if that was the case. If he went ahead with a 16" Ibex HT for example, wouldn't he do okay with that for his introduction period to MTB? Please don't think I'm being confrontational with you on purpose here. It's an interesting discussion and due to your experience we all obviously value your opinion.

MR. evil said:
Regardless of skill level bike fit is a huge factor when selecting a bike. Even when buying low end stuff, a good saleman at a bike shop will spend alot of time with you making sure they put you in a bike that fits well and is comfortable.

Okay, fair enough. So the best next step really is to go into a decent shop and get fitted, correct?

wa-loaf · Jun 10, 2008

Greg said:
Yeah, but my point is how much experience did you have at the point you realized that the shorter stem might help? What I'm saying is for someone starting out, it seems we're getting a little too deep. The same thing can happen with new skiers; a new skier is going to see little benefit from custom footbeds, or specialty skis for example. There's a certain level of skill that needs to be attained first. Maybe I have it all wrong, but it seems to me the most important thing is for Gary to get out on something solid that will last a few years and then he can tweak his set up. But again, I really don't know what I'm talking about.

That's the point I'm trying to make. Fit is important to a point, but if you are close there are plenty of adjustments that can me made to adjust for fit and personal preference. Gary needs to get a bike and head out. He definitely should spend a little time riding a few different bikes at shops and borrowed from friends. Just don't get too wrapped up in all the minutia, you can fine tune later once you get some miles in.

gmcunni · Jun 10, 2008

Comfort aside, I think Greg's point about experience holds a lot of water. If we were skiing and Greg and I switched skis it would not help me at all in the bumps, i don't have the skill level, regardless of the equipment. Greg, having the skills, might be negatively impacted by my fatter volkls which aren't made for bump skiing. crappy equipment hurts a pro, great equipment doesn't necessarily help a novice IMHO.

i realize skiing and biking are like apples and oranges. I do appreciate all the help here and am planning (just don't know when) to get to the local shops to see what they have to offer (both advice and product). Until i have a new ride i'll keep going with my old one. Much like my skiing, the biggest issue with getting out is not equipment or desire but rather scheduling with friends, family, work, etc.

wa-loaf · Jun 10, 2008

MR. evil said:
To bring this into skiing terms, would you ever recomend that a new skier buy uncomfortable boots? Didn't think so. He won't need the the best boots, or even good ones, but if his boots are uncomfortable he will not ski as much. Same for bikes.

To keep with the boot fitting analogy. Most out of the box boots don't fit perfect and a boot fitter will tell you to go out and use them some before all adjustments are made.

MR. evil said:
Even when buying low end stuff, a good saleman at a bike shop will spend alot of time with you making sure they put you in a bike that fits well and is comfortable.

Agreed.

Greg · Jun 10, 2008

gmcunni said:
Comfort aside, I think Greg's point about experience holds a lot of water. If we were skiing and Greg and I switched skis it would not help me at all in the bumps, i don't have the skill level, regardless of the equipment. Greg, having the skills, might be negatively impacted by my fatter volkls which aren't made for bump skiing. crappy equipment hurts a pro, great equipment doesn't necessarily help a novice IMHO.

Ha! I hardly have the skills to actually require bump skis. :lol: I'm just becoming a bit of a gear head as of late. Now getting into MTB, I have a whole new endeavor with which to spend money on gear.... Greeeeat.... :roll:

gmcunni said:
i realize skiing and biking are like apples and oranges. I do appreciate all the help here and am planning (just don't know when) to get to the local shops to see what they have to offer (both advice and product). Until i have a new ride i'll keep going with my old one. Much like my skiing, the biggest issue with getting out is not equipment or desire but rather scheduling with friends, family, work, etc.

Well, good luck with everything. I hear you on the scheduling front, believe me. I'm living it. One thing a new bike will do for you though is inspire you to work harder to make getting out on rides happen. Have you reconsidered Sunday at all? It would be great if you joined us. Maybe we could put the final nail in the coffin of that old Schwinn...

o3jeff · Jun 10, 2008

You should show up Sunday, I am sure any of us will let you try our bikes to get a feel for the different types.

gmcunni · Jun 10, 2008

Greg said:
Have you reconsidered Sunday at all?

still not looking good but i'm hoping for a miracle. after this weekend i'm probably much more likely to be freed up.

MR. evil · Jun 10, 2008

Greg said:
Okay, fair enough. So the best next step really is to go into a decent shop and get fitted, correct?

Yes, that would be the smart next step.

But if Gary still wants to save some coin and buy online, I would still visit a shop and find a bike that fits and is comfortable. Then I can look up the geo on that bike and fine other options that are very similar to the one he was fit to in the bike shop.

MR. evil · Jun 10, 2008

gmcunni said:
still not looking good but i'm hoping for a miracle. after this weekend i'm probably much more likely to be freed up.

Its fathers day, don't you get to decide what you want to do?;-)

Finding Gary a new bike!

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