Big Burke announcement

VTKilarney · Apr 10, 2014

I still want the mountain to be healthy. Unlike Masskier, however, I don't feel that spreading untruths is a mechanism to achieve this goal.

Here is what I hope Burke will do: Take all of the investors in the various projects (tennis center, etc) and try to consolidate them into the hotel project. Don't just assume that the money will come. Hire a credible firm to do a business analysis of the hotel. If the hotel can genuinely make money, share that analysis with potential investors.

Repair relations with Kingdom Trails. Do that QUICKLY. You will sell a lot more hotel rooms if things like NEMBAfest are still on Burke property.

Quietly back away from the Q-Burke name. You can still be Q-Burke d/b/a Burke Mountain Resort. The letter "Q" should not be anywhere the public sees. No sweatshirts, no letterhead - nothing.

If you, a northern Vermont resort, are not going to open until mid-December, make sure you have some decent snow laid down for when you open.

I am sure that there is more that can be done, but this is at least a start. Let's hope this guy can pull through.

from_the_NEK · Apr 10, 2014

VTKilarney said:
The fallout continues. NEMBAfest has been moved from the mountain to Darling Hill.

2014 info:
http://www.mtbadventureseries.org/mtbadventure/NEMBAfest2014.htm

2013 info:
http://www.mtbadventureseries.org/mtbadventure/NEMBAfest2013.htm

That is actually news that is at least 3 months old. They were going to have to move it anyway due to the construction that was supposed to start at Mid-Burke. The situation between Q and Kingdom Trails likely influenced the decision to move it off of mountain property altogether. Darling Hill should still be an excellent location.

VTKilarney · Apr 10, 2014

from_the_NEK said:
That is actually news that is at least 3 months old. They were going to have to move it anyway due to the construction that was supposed to start at Mid-Burke. The situation between Q and Kingdom Trails likely influenced the decision to move it off of mountain property altogether. Darling Hill should still be an excellent location.

So you are saying that Ary let it move when he ought to have known that construction would not likely happen? Ouch!

from_the_NEK · Apr 10, 2014

VTKilarney said:
So you are saying that Ary let it move when he ought to have known that construction would not likely happen? Ouch!

Where did I say that 4 months ago, Ary definitely knew that "construction would not likely happen"?

I don't think anyone knew there was a 100% chance that construction wouldn't start before June 22nd. Maybe there is even a 30% chance that it still will.

Considering that there may still be a chance construction starts before NEMBAfest, why wouldn't Ary allow the venue to be moved out of your potential construction site? Would you push back the start date of a multimillion $ project so a bunch of mountain bikers can camp in your construction site.

Again the above was probably not the driving factor in the move. Kingdom Trails has a MUCH closer relationship with NEMBA which was likely the reason that NEMBAfest was moved off mountain property.

thetrailboss · Apr 10, 2014

VTKilarney said:
So you are saying that Ary let it move when he ought to have known that construction would not likely happen? Ouch!

A lot of local events that were once at the mountain have moved to other venues as of late. The Burke Chamber of Commerce did an event at the mountain every year in January. They moved it this year. Kingdom Trails also moved their XC operations to the Wildflower Inn.

Word on the street is that Q wants to go his own way. He wants to compete with KT and offer more lift-served biking (on trails that KT volunteers built with KT funds?!)

VTKilarney · Apr 10, 2014

from_the_NEK said:
Where did I say that 4 months ago, Ary definitely knew that "construction would not likely happen"?

I didn't mean to imply that you said it. I was just trying to get into Ary's head. If the hotel project was at best 25% funded as late as this month (to be fair, Stenger's comments were somewhat cryptic), it would have been foolish to let the event move.

Did the NEMBA event use enough of the upper hill that it could not have remained on the lower hill while construction was going on? I've never been so I really don't know. You really do have two separate pods, including parking - so I'm wondering if there was enough room for both. It sounds like there may not have been.

VTKilarney · Apr 10, 2014

thetrailboss said:
Word on the street is that Q wants to go his own way. He wants to compete with KT and offer more lift-served biking (on trails that KT volunteers built with KT funds?!)

I've heard that some of those trails are on state land. If that is the case, does that come into play somehow?

thetrailboss · Apr 10, 2014

VTKilarney said:
The article is available to e-edition subscribers the night before the physical edition comes out.

In the article Ary insists that the hotel will be built this year. This is odd given that the delay was supposed to be weather related only. Why the wait to break ground? And how could it be built in less than nine months? Perhaps he meant that construction would start this year.

He says that skier visits were the same as last year but revenues were up by 10 percent. I'm trying to figure out how this happened given the aggressive discounting during the second half of the season.

Darn. I thought that you were going to tell us that you had a "Deep (Powder) Throat" insider from the mountain and that you had meetings with him in various dark corners of East Burke and he told you to "follow the (lack of) money":

And this latest thing shows that even guys like Masskier and Ski Racer Parent can be duped.

VTKilarney · Apr 10, 2014

thetrailboss said:
And this latest thing shows that even guys like Masskier and Ski Racer Parent can be duped.

Not trying to be a wise guy, but there was really no excuse for that. I'm not kidding when I say that I, who had no inside information when this began, was able to poke around and get to the bottom of the situation in mere minutes. The truth was out there.

VTKilarney · Apr 10, 2014

thetrailboss said:
He wants to compete with KT and offer more lift-served biking (on trails that KT volunteers built with KT funds?!)

The problem with this is that lift-served biking is not unique. Kingdom Trails is much more unique.

For lift-served biking, Highland Bike Park and Pat's Peak are much closer to Boston. Bromont is much closer to Montreal and Tremblant has all sorts of summer activities in addition to biking. Powder Ridge and Mountain Creek are much closer to New York City. And there are others like Jimminey Peak Attitash. There are at least 100 total lift served biking facilities.

So why distance yourself from something much more unique than you are?

SkiRaceParent · Apr 10, 2014

thetrailboss said:
And this latest thing shows that even guys like Masskier and Ski Racer Parent can be duped.

Huh? How was I duped?

VTKilarney · Apr 10, 2014

SkiRaceParent said:
Huh? How was I duped?

Yeah, I think it was Masskier only. SkiRaceParent just didn't like the negativity.

SkiRaceParent · Apr 10, 2014

VTKilarney said:
Yeah, I think it was Masskier only. SkiRaceParent just didn't like the negativity.

I still don't think the negativity is warranted. I agree Quiros is not making all the right moves but with BMA there and its recent successes the mountain isn't going anywhere. All this discussion about it going the way of Ascutney, there is absolutely no chance that would ever happen.

thetrailboss · Apr 10, 2014

SkiRaceParent said:
I still don't think the negativity is warranted. I agree Quiros is not making all the right moves but with BMA there and its recent successes the mountain isn't going anywhere. All this discussion about it going the way of Ascutney, there is absolutely no chance that would ever happen.

BMA has saved the mountain once before. It is now two ownership regimes from running the mountain. Unfortunately BMA alone does not a successful ski area make.

thetrailboss · Apr 10, 2014

SkiRaceParent said:
Huh? How was I duped?

You were confident that Burke had all the money in hand to proceed with work. They clearly don't. Stenger said last week that they were 25% funded.

VTKilarney · Apr 10, 2014

SkiRaceParent said:
but with BMA there and its recent successes the mountain isn't going anywhere. All this discussion about it going the way of Ascutney, there is absolutely no chance that would ever happen.

I agree that this is what makes Burke fundamentally different from Ascutney. I don't think that it means that Burke is completely out of the woods, but I don't see Burke closing in the foreseeable future so long as the Academy has anything to do with it.

SkiRaceParent · Apr 10, 2014

thetrailboss said:
You were confident that Burke had all the money in hand to proceed with work. They clearly don't. Stenger said last week that they were 25% funded.

Source?

VTKilarney · Apr 10, 2014

SkiRaceParent, is there any risk that the if the Acadmey took the mountain back that they would only run their training hill and close the ski area to the public? That's my nightmare scenario.

thetrailboss · Apr 10, 2014

The comparison to Ascutney speaks to the management of the mountain and not BMA in any way. And there are, unfortunately, many similarities. That is not to say that the end result will be the same. As the saying goes one who fails to learn from history is cursed to repeat it.

And to be clear the management and ownership of Burke DOES NOT involve Jay to much extent at all. Stenger and company distanced themselves from last December's debacle. Stenger came in to do damage control, but that was because of the connection to other EB-5 projects and that the Q's had made some major gaffes.

thetrailboss · Apr 10, 2014

SkiRaceParent said:
Source?

You yourself. Months ago some were worried that the mountain did not have funds in hand to move ahead with the projects. You said that you knew for a fact that they did have the money in hand. Stenger last week contradicted that.

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