Anyone want to move to VT?

Funky_Catskills · Jun 8, 2018

If my life wasn't so tied to NYC right now - I'd consider this..

mister moose · Jun 8, 2018

Kleetus said:
$150 an hour for the airplane cost is about right. That's about the going rate for small single-engine piston rental aircraft these days.

BenedictGomez said:
Interesting info. I wonder what it is all-in, plane, pilot, etc...

Looks like they operate Cessna 182s, based on a photo it's a 2008 model worth 200k. Replacement 450k.

Hourly costs are roughly

Fuel 13gph @ $5.50 72 (likely less if they patrol at slow speeds)
Engine reserves …….14
Maintenance...……... 40 (est, based on performing 100hr inspections)

Total hourly cost.. $126

Fixed costs would include one or two policemen (Yes, cops are pilots too) insurance, & hangar if they use one. Lots of single engine planes live outside.

So estimate salary, insurance ($3,000) and parking/hangar and divide by the number of flight hours per year.

I'll go with $60,000 plus 35,000 in taxes/benefits, and outdoor storage at $100/month.

45,000 citations a year for 7 aircraft is 6,428 tickets a year per aircraft. If you can deliver one offender to the ground crew every 10 minutes, that would take about 1,000 flight hours. That happens to be about a full time job.

So the hundred grand in fixed costs, for a thousand flight hours is another $100 per hour, total per flight hour, $226.

So for 6 tickets per hour, the cost per ticket is ~$37.

(I guessed at a FL cops salary. Add in hangar costs if applicable. I did not include depreciation or interest, States tend to buy new, and these aircraft are likely paid for. Your mileage may vary.)

x10003q · Jun 8, 2018

mister moose said:
Looks like they operate Cessna 182s, based on a photo it's a 2008 model worth 200k. Replacement 450k.

Hourly costs are roughly

Fuel 13gph @ $5.50 72 (likely less if they patrol at slow speeds)
Engine reserves …….14
Maintenance...……... 40 (est, based on performing 100hr inspections)

Total hourly cost.. $126

Fixed costs would include one or two policemen (Yes, cops are pilots too) insurance, & hangar if they use one. Lots of single engine planes live outside.

So estimate salary, insurance ($3,000) and parking/hangar and divide by the number of flight hours per year.

I'll go with $60,000 plus 35,000 in taxes/benefits, and outdoor storage at $100/month.

45,000 citations a year for 7 aircraft is 6,428 tickets a year per aircraft. If you can deliver one offender to the ground crew every 10 minutes, that would take about 1,000 flight hours. That happens to be about a full time job.

So the hundred grand in fixed costs, for a thousand flight hours is another $100 per hour, total per flight hour, $226.

So for 6 tickets per hour, the cost per ticket is ~$37.

(I guessed at a FL cops salary. Add in hangar costs if applicable. I did not include depreciation or interest, States tend to buy new, and these aircraft are likely paid for. Your mileage may vary.)

According to this link - FL cost for aircraft is $150/hour
http://fightyourspeedingticket.com/types-speed-measurement-devices/aircraft-speeding-tickets/

To write 6 tickets per hour they would need at least 4-6 officers on the ground if you figure 20 minutes (10 minutes is not enough time) to do a single ticket. Using aircraft to catch speeders never makes financial sense. I would guess 4-6 officers can write almost as many tickets without all the aircraft costs. I have been going up and down the NYS Thruway from NJ to Albany for almost 40 years and I have never seen police aircraft. The same is true for the Northway from Albany to the exit for Lake Placid.

The only time an aircraft might be helpful is when there is a nut job pushing 140, but by the time the aircraft got up on the air, the nut job might be 3 counties over.:wink:

VTKilarney · Jun 8, 2018

I'm perfectly fine with it not making financial sense. If it did, that aircraft would be out a lot more.

In all likelihood they got some sort of federal grant for highway safety that paid for it.

BenedictGomez · Jun 8, 2018

VTKilarney said:
I'm perfectly fine with it not making financial sense.

I assume that can only mean that you believe it's a deterrent. I, for one, personally do not agree.

I've never even so much as batted and eyelash when I see those signs, because like everyone else in this thread has stated, we know it's a once-in-4 blue moons it's actually operational.

Just (another) waste of money IMHO.

VTKilarney · Jun 8, 2018

BenedictGomez said:
I assume that can only mean that you believe it's a deterrent. I, for one, personally do not agree.

I've never even so much as batted and eyelash when I see those signs, because like everyone else in this thread has stated, we know it's a once-in-4 blue moons it's actually operational.

Just (another) waste of money IMHO.

Oh, I don’t believe that it is a deterrent.

MEtoVTSkier · Jun 8, 2018

Had to be at least 30 chase vehicles over a 10-15 mile span. All different sorts that they could stick blue lights in or on. Not just standard Trooper's cruisers, probably a ton of drug confiscation vehicles too. 86 in a 70... $243 in 2012.

They just scan your license, and key in your registration. In car laser printer prints out a full page ticket in seconds, they don't even hand write them anymore... just "printing money" as fast as possible.

mister moose · Jun 8, 2018

x10003q said:
According to this link - FL cost for aircraft is $150/hour
http://fightyourspeedingticket.com/types-speed-measurement-devices/aircraft-speeding-tickets/

To write 6 tickets per hour they would need at least 4-6 officers on the ground if you figure 20 minutes (10 minutes is not enough time) to do a single ticket. Using aircraft to catch speeders never makes financial sense. I would guess 4-6 officers can write almost as many tickets without all the aircraft costs. I have been going up and down the NYS Thruway from NJ to Albany for almost 40 years and I have never seen police aircraft. The same is true for the Northway from Albany to the exit for Lake Placid.

The only time an aircraft might be helpful is when there is a nut job pushing 140, but by the time the aircraft got up on the air, the nut job might be 3 counties over.:wink:

I read the thread, I saw the $150 figure. "Flight cost" is vague, and there is no way it includes operational costs like pilot salary. I was provided additional information on what it costs to operate an airplane, something most press always gets wrong. Also, State operations like this one are usually loath to quote detailed cost figures, as they are always way higher than the private sector.

Unless you know what to look for, you won't see the aircraft. They are not 100 feet overhead with flashing blue lights. And when they are overhead, or nearly so, most people have this thing called a roof that obstructs vision upwards.

I imagine the idea is centered around defeating Waze and radar detector users, not competing with the cost of ground based tickets. I do know that one aircraft can keep several ground cars busy.

And trust me, nobody dispatches a Ce 182 on the ground to catch a speeder doing 140. (Many high end sports cars can out run a CE-182)

thetrailboss · Jun 8, 2018

Back on topic—VT Digger reported that 800 people responded to the offer.

Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

mbedle · Jun 9, 2018

thetrailboss said:
Back on topic—VT Digger reported that 800 people responded to the offer.

Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

I wonder how many of them realized its a matching grant up to 5k per year...

machski · Jun 9, 2018

CoolMike said:
Yes - for sure it was bad luck. I do think it had to do with the relatively recent change to the speed limit along that stretch of road. I got this ticket the same year they changed the limit (3-4 years ago?).

Also, part of the legislation increased the base ticket amount in the 70MPH zones higher than what it is in 65MPH ones. Still is that way, but I'm sure after the initial focus, state police have likely gone back to higher thresholds. I routinely do 76 right by cops on 93 in 70 and have had zero problems.

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thetrailboss · Jun 9, 2018

mbedle said:
I wonder how many of them realized its a matching grant up to 5k per year...

Don't know. But the cost of private planes and speed limit debate are much more interesting at this point! :lol:

mbedle · Jun 10, 2018

thetrailboss said:
Don't know. But the cost of private planes and speed limit debate are much more interesting at this point! :lol:

LOL, good one!

John9 · Jun 10, 2018

I thought about this before this promotion. Everything I read says salary is significantly lower than NJ tri state area. Ok fine. House prices are the same, in many cases more than my area of NJ, Morris county. How can anyone live there, in any of the Top 10 or so places to live in VT, not middle of nowhere, when pay is much less, but homes are more expensive?

benski · Jun 10, 2018

John9 said:
I thought about this before this promotion. Everything I read says salary is significantly lower than NJ tri state area. Ok fine. House prices are the same, in many cases more than my area of NJ, Morris county. How can anyone live there, in any of the Top 10 or so places to live in VT, not middle of nowhere, when pay is much less, but homes are more expensive?

You have a lot more low wage jobs in Vermont than New Jersey. If you compared doctors to doctors or cops to cops it would work out much better.

John9 · Jun 10, 2018

Ok, so besides cops and doctors, who can afford it? Higher home prices and lower salaries, great combination.

I also looked at CO, huge job market in Denver. Any nice Denver suburb makes NJ look cheap!

A nice 2000 square foot, 3 bed, 2 bath home on any amount of land, .25 to 1 ac is so much more expensive than Morris county NJ.

mbedle · Jun 10, 2018

John9 said:
Ok, so besides cops and doctors, who can afford it? Higher home prices and lower salaries, great combination.

I also looked at CO, huge job market in Denver. Any nice Denver suburb makes NJ look cheap!

A nice 2000 square foot, 3 bed, 2 bath home on any amount of land, .25 to 1 ac is so much more expensive than Morris county NJ.

Are you sure about that? What part of Morris county are you from? There is a pretty big swing in prices in that county. As far as average home prices, Vermont ranks around 27th and New Jersey ranks around 9.

John9 · Jun 10, 2018

From what I see, if my house was in Burlington VT, it would easily be worth 100k more than it is in a nice town in western Morris county NJ. Doesn't matter, I'm stuck here.

VTKilarney · Jun 10, 2018

benski said:
You have a lot more low wage jobs in Vermont than New Jersey. If you compared doctors to doctors or cops to cops it would work out much better.

That’s not really true. Most professional jobs pay less in Vermont. Neonatal nurses, for example, make 11% less than the national average (32nd out of 50 states)

I would say that is pretty typical.

BenedictGomez · Jun 10, 2018

John9 said:
if my house was in Burlington VT, it would easily be worth 100k more than it is in a nice town in western Morris county NJ.

I find that generally hard to believe. That said, there are some cheaper areas of Morris County, so I guess it all depends. But there's no way you're finding a cheaper comp in Madison or Chatham than you are in Burlington VT. Heck, I doubt Burlington is more expensive than Morristown.

EDIT: Also, FWIW, I believe homes are currently overvalued in most American markets, and definitely in Vermont.

Anyone want to move to VT?

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