Back to the future - straight(er) skis for GS racers?

[Bumpsis]

NY Times reports in 11/23 article that F.I.S. will mandate new type of ski for Giant Slalom races:

excerpt from the article: "Ligety, who was training with the United States ski team in New Zealand, had just skied for the first time on new giant slalom skis — straighter and longer than what he was accustomed to, with less side-cut, curve or shape. It was equipment that earlier in the summer ski racing’s governing body, the International Ski Federation, known as F.I.S., said would be mandatory next season. Ligety used a derogatory term to describe the new skis, which in essence are a kind of skis not manufactured in two decades, since the advent of parabolic skis.

“I felt like Phil Mahre circa ’84,” he wrote. "

link to the whole article: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/23/s...-mandate.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=ski racing&st=cse

F.I.S. is basing its new mandate on some studies pointing to straight skis being safer.

Interesting... Maybe if the straight skis do come back with the cachet of being "for racers only", I may be able to finally sell my straight skis.
I actually have a pair of K2 KVC Comps that are still fun to ski, especially in moguls. Light and quick unlike their owner

 

[KevinF]

There has been endless discussion regarding these rule changes over on Epic, other skiing forums and all over various blogs.

Synopsis: The racers hate it, the manufacturers hate it, there's essentially no real proof that increasing the turn radius will do anything to improve athlete safety, and the FIS essentially has the power to say "we don't care what you think".

Current GS race skis have a >27m turn radius which has already turned GS into a spectacle of massive braking, sliding, etc. because nobody can carve those things arc-to-arc through a GS course. With the new regulations, they'll essentially be asked to take a DH ski and turn it through a GS course. Should be interesting to watch if only for the amusement factor.

 

[drjeff]

The best analogy I can make about this is with hitters in baseball. They all grow up using aluminum and now composite bats and continue to use them through a very high level of competition, and then they finally make it to the highest level of competition and its suddenly back to old tech. Most will do ok with the change, and a few will excel, but some just won't be able to effectively make the transition - BAD move on the part of the F.I.S. IMHO!

 

[thinnmann]

I actually have a pair of K2 KVC Comps that are still fun to ski, especially in moguls.

I have them too! But I could not imagine trying to ski them again, considering their lack of torsional stiffness, the fluorescent pink graphics, and the fact that they are 25 cm longer than anything I have skied for the last 8 or so years....

 

[deadheadskier]

Maybe I'll bust out my 1993 flourescent pink Dynamic VR27 GS boards this winter.

I think it's stupid to mandate turning radius on race skis. If someone can rage a GS course on a set of K2 Pontoons faster than any other ski, then they should be allowed to go for it IMO.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Synopsis: The racers hate it, the manufacturers hate it, there's essentially no real proof that increasing the turn radius will do anything to improve athlete safety, and the FIS essentially has the power to say "we don't care what you think".

Sounds like the US government.

Maybe I'll bust out my 1993 flourescent pink Dynamic VR27 GS boards this winter.

You know, I think I had these skis. Where they pink, black, and green? Mine were circa 1991 or 1992 though, and I last used them as rock skis in Vermont around 2001. They were beat to hell, and I just left then in the shed in VT when I moved. I wish I still had them.

 

[Ski the Moguls]

. . .
Synopsis: The racers hate it, the manufacturers hate it, there's essentially no real proof that increasing the turn radius will do anything to improve athlete safety, and the FIS essentially has the power to say "we don't care what you think".
. . .

IIRC, this sort of attitude has been taken by other sports leagues in the past. Some have suffered devastating downturns in popularity as a result. (Indy car racing comes to mind.) When you get too big for your britches you need to be extra careful to listen to your customer. FIS has the power now, but if they continue to makes these mistakes they may not have all that power for much longer.

 

[jimmywilson69]

I jokingly sent this picture to my buddy saying "Here's my '11-'12 Quiver!"

Maybe I should wax these bad boys up and take them to the hill!

 

[x10003q]

FIS is a useless organization that thinks it is European Royalty. It is pretty easy to put together a schedule that has more or less been the same for the last 25 years. Anybody with a laptop can keep the points. Two more interesting tidbits: the results they use as "scientific proof" only include the last 5 years and there was no input from any women.

As for the Dynamic VR27 Geants - mine are from around 1989 and are more of a salmon color. The Geze 962r bindings are hot pink. These are 210. I wonder what they are going to do about length?

View attachment 4750

These skis were fast.

 

[Glenn]

Awesome, so now their governing ski races like auto racing. Will they have to run "restrictor plate" skis on steeper courses? :lol:

 

[4aprice]

Sounds like the US government..

It's actually the europeans. They are trying to slow down the racers some. One of the things they are starting to do is cut down on the space between gates making the technical aspect more demanding. As the parent of a racer I'm not so sure that is a bad thing.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

 

[Highway Star]

I thought this post on TGR was pretty insightful.....​

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/226145-F-I-S-rule-changes?p=3343346#post3343346​

Looks like people are barely carving in GS now anyway, so they should increase the radius. It's horrifcly ugly and looks like 1992 though.​

 

[Highway Star]

I thought these two were pretty similar.....





They'll get used to it....lol.

 

[drjeff]

The problem with the new rules, is that the coaches are still setting a course like the racers are still on the shorter radius GS skis from last year. In those two videos that HS posted, if you look at the set of the course that Tomba was skiing, its a much straighter course with the gates being both further downhill and less across the hill than they are in the new video. So much of the initiation phase now of the turn on the new reg GS skis with the "old style" set courses, especially in the steeps is being done not my rolling onto the edge and arcing the ski through the entire turn, but basically from the start of the initiation until rough where the skis get pointed straight down the falline is just "throwing them sideways" to get them into the falline when HOPEFULLY the strength and skill of the racer will enable the edge to grab and finishing carving from the falline through the finish before throwing them sideways again to start the next turn.

IMHO, this rule change, especially in a tecnhical course overnight changed GS from a thing of beauty to watch when done right to now the "ugliest" of the disciplines to watch

 

[BenedictGomez]

As for the Dynamic VR27 Geants - mine are from around 1989 and are more of a salmon color.

Yup, those are definitely what I had. Except mine were mostly black, with some hot pink and green thrown into the mix (whatever year that was).

 

[from_the_NEK]

The problem with the new rules, is that the coaches are still setting a course like the racers are still on the shorter radius GS skis from last year. In those two videos that HS posted, if you look at the set of the course that Tomba was skiing, its a much straighter course with the gates being both further downhill and less across the hill than they are in the new video....

IMHO, this rule change, especially in a tecnhical course overnight changed GS from a thing of beauty to watch when done right to now the "ugliest" of the disciplines to watch

I think you hit the nail on the head there.

 

[Hawkshot99]

I use a Atomic GS cheater ski for GS racing. It is a 179 with a 18.4m radius and really like them. I demoed my Atomic Reps pair of real GS skis that were a 184 in a high 20 something radius and really did not like them. They were super stable at speed, but a workout to turn.

I have a pair of Head racestock on the shop wall to mount binding on and they have 33m radius. They feel as stiff as a I-Beam, and I would be scared to ski them and try and make it down the course. I am guessing I would always be behind on the gates, and having to throw them sideways to make the gates.

 

[wa-loaf]

Hitler has heard of this and he's pissed:
http://meemsy.com/v/357

 

[skidmarks]

I thought these two were pretty similar.....





They'll get used to it....lol.

Tomba was so slow he didn't need a helmet....

 

[riverc0il]

The problem with the new rules, is that the coaches are still setting a course like the racers are still on the shorter radius GS skis from last year. In those two videos that HS posted, if you look at the set of the course that Tomba was skiing, its a much straighter course with the gates being both further downhill and less across the hill than they are in the new video. So much of the initiation phase now of the turn on the new reg GS skis with the "old style" set courses, especially in the steeps is being done not my rolling onto the edge and arcing the ski through the entire turn, but basically from the start of the initiation until rough where the skis get pointed straight down the falline is just "throwing them sideways" to get them into the falline when HOPEFULLY the strength and skill of the racer will enable the edge to grab and finishing carving from the falline through the finish before throwing them sideways again to start the next turn.

IMHO, this rule change, especially in a tecnhical course overnight changed GS from a thing of beauty to watch when done right to now the "ugliest" of the disciplines to watch

I haven't followed ski racing much at all despite having a racing background. But I recently watched a few videos due to the strong USA showing recently. That combined with some of the videos posted in the TGR thread linked above strongly demonstrated your point. It is really eye opening to see the skis thrown sideways as opposed to a pure carve! This rule change can't help, especially if the courses are set the same.

Kind of crazy to have top level ski racers using a technique that no recreational skier would aspire to.