Crackhead 'Water Conservation' interview on NHPR

[tcharron]

On Tuesday I was listening to NHPR in the morning, and during the interview with 'Maude Barlow', and as I was getting annoyed at her utterly ignorant arguments, the last draw was a broad statement she made towards the end of the interview.

Generalized summary: "Oh, and the ski areas in New England are HORRIBLE polluters of fresh water. They add chemicals to water so it will retain its crystalline form longer, and then pump it all over the mountain, to melt and then pollute the local water supplies.."

http://www.nhpr.org/node/15665

Much h8 for crack heads..

41 minutes, 20 seconds into the mp3 file is where she actually states it. Not only that, but she actually infers that the snow then evaporates from the ski area, and DOESN'T go back into the local water supply.

 

[ERJ-145CA]

There are now a couple of rebuttals on the site in the link calling her out on her false statement.

 

[Hawkshot99]

Because she has a different opinion than you she is a "Crack head"?

I think people who don't show a receipt when asked are "crack heads" but I don't say that.....

 

[ckofer]

Some hydrologists would argue that snowmaking is a way of storing water on the mountain for the spring meltdown.

 

[ERJ-145CA]

Because she has a different opinion than you she is a "Crack head"?

I think tcharron called her a "crack head" because of her statement of falsehoods as fact, not because his opinion differed from hers.

 

[tcharron]

Because she has a different opinion than you she is a "Crack head"?

I think people who don't show a receipt when asked are "crack heads" but I don't say that.....

I think she reiterated a few good points, however, after actually glancing at some of her research, her web site, and some of the claims she has, she's grasping at anything to validate the sky is falling mentality, even resorting to fear, uncertainty, and doubt arguments which have no basis in fact. Some of her arguments are equivalent to saying the United States should exterminate all cats, because after all, they use the liter box, releasing harmful wastes. Additionally, she targets the 'evil, evil bottled water makers', instead of emphasizing that ONLY behavior change will modify the environment changes which happen as a result of excessive water usage.

The snowmaking causes massive pollution argument is one that was the final straw, as such a statement demonstrates that she has absolutely no real grasp of what she's talking about.

 

[tcharron]

I think tcharron called her a "crack head" because of her statement of falsehoods as fact, not because his opinion differed from hers.

Exactly. She reiterates many good points that other people have made, but then drag them out to ridiculous conclusions, and then make stuff up to simply get more attention.

 

[deadheadskier]

Some hydrologists would argue that snowmaking is a way of storing water on the mountain for the spring meltdown.

Interesting arguement, makes alot of sense


ecologist give ski areas a lot of crap for wasting water, but what ski areas use is a small drop in the bucket compared with the amount of water home owners use to keep their lawn green

 

[Mapnut]

Interesting arguement, makes alot of sense

Not to this hydrologist. "Storing water for spring meltdown"? Who needs more water for spring runoff? What ski areas do is take water from streams or reservoirs and put it where it will become part of spring floods. If they pump or divert water from streams in the winter when flow is low, that's not good for the streams. But by design, they should pump into reservoirs when flow is high. I don't know if that's possible in practice. Any environmental engineers from up country know what goes into a pumping permit? And I can't say whether melting man-made snow significantly increase flood peaks or not, without doing a study. Probably any such effects would be very local.

I share your distaste for watering lawns. That's done during dry seasons when water is needed for more important things.

 

[ckofer]

Interesting arguement, makes alot of sense


ecologist give ski areas a lot of crap for wasting water, but what ski areas use is a small drop in the bucket compared with the amount of water home owners use to keep their lawn green

It would be a bad practice to have such an impact on a river or stream that you destroy habitats by lowering the water level by huge amounts. I find no articles that show that snowmaking is a source of pollution via runoff. A different concern is the amount of energy required to make snow. With that in mind, it must take a little power to run a radio station too.

 

[Hawkshot99]

It would be a bad practice to have such an impact on a river or stream that you destroy habitats by lowering the water level by huge amounts. I find no articles that show that snowmaking is a source of pollution via runoff. A different concern is the amount of energy required to make snow. With that in mind, it must take a little power to run a radio station too.

Pollution i honestly dont know about, but all of the extra erosion that takes place? That is alot of extra water running down the mountain every year taking dirt and whatever else happens with erosion....

 

[tcharron]

Not to this hydrologist. "Storing water for spring meltdown"? Who needs more water for spring runoff? What ski areas do is take water from streams or reservoirs and put it where it will become part of spring floods. If they pump or divert water from streams in the winter when flow is low, that's not good for the streams. But by design, they should pump into reservoirs when flow is high. I don't know if that's possible in practice. Any environmental engineers from up country know what goes into a pumping permit? And I can't say whether melting man-made snow significantly increase flood peaks or not, without doing a study. Probably any such effects would be very local.

I share your distaste for watering lawns. That's done during dry seasons when water is needed for more important things.

Evidence has actually pointed to the contrary. There is a lot of research which has been done in the affects of developed ski areas, including one done by the University of Vermont on Stowe.

http://www.uvm.edu/~bwemple/pubs/poster-mansfield.pdf

In this particular case, they find that developed areas runoff is much greater and faster during rain events, but actually much slower to melt off in the spring.

 

[tcharron]

Pollution i honestly dont know about, but all of the extra erosion that takes place? That is alot of extra water running down the mountain every year taking dirt and whatever else happens with erosion....

If that was occuring, the ski slopes would need to be 'fixed' as they where eroded. Many ski areas which have been around for over 50 years haven't changed much. I have yet to see a ski area 'flash thaw', even during heavy rain events. Bear in mind, the snow gets packpackpakcpackpacked. It's not the same soft fluffy stuff that's in the woods, and it most definitely doesn't thaw at even close to the same rate. Take a look at areas where people of late spring skiing. You won't find any snow left in the surrounding area, even though there IS snow left on the mountain.

 

[ckofer]

Pollution i honestly dont know about, but all of the extra erosion that takes place? That is alot of extra water running down the mountain every year taking dirt and whatever else happens with erosion....

Erosion control is an important part of any developed site. Maybe someone else hear can elaborate on the details. I have just developed a piece of land. I got to the foundation level in November and called it quits for the winter. It seems that our erosion control measures are not being challenged too much by the meltdown. We had some rains before winter, however, that moved some dirt around. Once plants (including grass) are established the soils should stabilize and tolerate hard rains.

There will always be those folks who want to pick on the ski industry. If there are snowmaking practices that need attention, so be it. It is irresponsible journalism to make blanket statements that have no foundation.

 

[SIKSKIER]

Erosion,now that's another stretch.The only erosion I've seen was at Sunday River after a historical rain event last year.The damage was confined to areas that had been altered by man in the first place,certainly not natural rivers.The Mississippi has changed courses an infinate amount of times before we arrived and I'm sure that was not because of the Indians ski areas.All ski areas create water bars on open slopes to channel water away and into streams.As far as the spring meltoff of manmade snow affecting watershed,it amounts to one grain of sand in the Sahara Desert compared to the total square miles of land that is left natural.These kind of statements made on NPR are typical of the liberal AL GORE,we are the enemies of the world mentality meant to scare us all back into out caves.Please see these radicals for what they are.

 

[WICKEDBUMPER]

These kind of statements made on NPR are typical of the liberal AL GORE,we are the enemies of the world mentality meant to scare us all back into out caves.Please see these radicals for what they are.

I didnt want to write anything about this but I just had to when I read SIKSKIERS last line. My daughters were born this past summer. Unfortunitly, they had to spend a month in the NICU unit. Over the course of the month, I became friends with other parents of multiple births. One of these mothers called us up the day after she left and told us that a group of "enviornmentalists" were standing in front of the hospital heckling her as she was putting her new born triplets into the car.
sure enough, 2 weeks later as my wife and I were placing our girls into the car...you guessed it. Some bit_h starts up with "you should have only had one. why didnt you abort one? your selfish for having more then 1. get your tubes tied" crap like that. Then she started with "think about your carbon footprint. that extra baby is an unnecesarry strain on the envoirnment, what were we thinking when we let that extra baby into the world to use up extra oxygen and our natural resources?" before I knew it, she had another a**hole chime in with pretty much the same crap about "the damage" my girls would do to the earth.
even today, I still notice that for every 25 or so well wishes or nice comments, I get some schmuck who wants to comment about my enviornmental impact.
Nice testament to the stupidity of some people.

 

[snoseek]

I didnt want to write anything about this but I just had to when I read SIKSKIERS last line. My daughters were born this past summer. Unfortunitly, they had to spend a month in the NICU unit. Over the course of the month, I became friends with other parents of multiple births. One of these mothers called us up the day after she left and told us that a group of "enviornmentalists" were standing in front of the hospital heckling her as she was putting her new born triplets into the car.
sure enough, 2 weeks later as my wife and I were placing our girls into the car...you guessed it. Some bit_h starts up with "you should have only had one. why didnt you abort one? your selfish for having more then 1. get your tubes tied" crap like that. Then she started with "think about your carbon footprint. that extra baby is an unnecesarry strain on the envoirnment, what were we thinking when we let that extra baby into the world to use up extra oxygen and our natural resources?" before I knew it, she had another a**hole chime in with pretty much the same crap about "the damage" my girls would do to the earth.
even today, I still notice that for every 25 or so well wishes or nice comments, I get some schmuck who wants to comment about my enviornmental impact.
Nice testament to the stupidity of some people.

Thats probably the craziest thing i ever heard. It's kooks like this that turn so many people off from environmentalist and just call them hippy freaks. This is too bad because there are a lot of issues that need to be adressed concerning our planet.

 

[riverc0il]

Erosion,now that's another stretch.The only erosion I've seen was at Sunday River after a historical rain event last year.The damage was confined to areas that had been altered by man in the first place,certainly not natural rivers.The Mississippi has changed courses an infinate amount of times before we arrived and I'm sure that was not because of the Indians ski areas.All ski areas create water bars on open slopes to channel water away and into streams.As far as the spring meltoff of manmade snow affecting watershed,it amounts to one grain of sand in the Sahara Desert compared to the total square miles of land that is left natural.These kind of statements made on NPR are typical of the liberal AL GORE,we are the enemies of the world mentality meant to scare us all back into out caves.Please see these radicals for what they are.

This comment is political in nature and totally off topic and that is all I am going to say about that.

 

[bvibert]

This comment is political in nature and totally off topic and that is all I am going to say about that.

Agreed, lets please try to keep politics out of it.

 

[twinplanx]

So... is there any evidence in the "adding chemicals to prevent freezing" claim? I've heard this before, but find it hard to believe.