• Welcome to AlpineZone, the largest online community of skiers and snowboarders in the Northeast!

    You may have to REGISTER before you can post. Registering is FREE, gets rid of the majority of advertisements, and lets you participate in giveaways and other AlpineZone events!

death on Annapurna @ Hunter today

JimG.

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Oct 29, 2004
Messages
10,966
Points
48
Location
Hopewell Jct., NY
Terrible but not unexpected.

Grooming=Death on steep trails like that. We've discussed this on AZ many times before. If the trail had been allowed to bump up as expert trails should this man would most likely be alive now.

Sorry for the soapbox rant but someone at Hunter needs to wake up and take notice.

RIP and heartfelt condolences to his family, truly sad.
 

benski

New member
Joined
Jun 18, 2014
Messages
1,113
Points
0
Location
Binghamton NY
Terrible but not unexpected.

Grooming=Death on steep trails like that. We've discussed this on AZ many times before. If the trail had been allowed to bump up as expert trails should this man would most likely be alive now.

Sorry for the soapbox rant but someone at Hunter needs to wake up and take notice.

RIP and heartfelt condolences to his family, truly sad.

Annapurna does not look very wide either. With the steep groomers, mountains should stick to wide trails to increase the chance a fallen skier does not hit a trees.
 

JimG.

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Oct 29, 2004
Messages
10,966
Points
48
Location
Hopewell Jct., NY
Annapurna does not look very wide either. With the steep groomers, mountains should stick to wide trails to increase the chance a fallen skier does not hit a trees.

Not wide and there are subtle curves in the trail layout. Also a subtle double fall line.

All of which conspires to funnel sliding skiers towards the woods.
 
Joined
Nov 19, 2014
Messages
387
Points
16
In the end, skiers are responsible for their own decisions. No one holds a gun to your head and tells you to ski faster than is safe for the current conditions.
 

chuckstah

Active member
Joined
Mar 22, 2013
Messages
1,175
Points
38
Terrible but not unexpected.

Grooming=Death on steep trails like that. We've discussed this on AZ many times before. If the trail had been allowed to bump up as expert trails should this man would most likely be alive now.

Sorry for the soapbox rant but someone at Hunter needs to wake up and take notice.

RIP and heartfelt condolences to his family, truly sad.
Condolences to all involved. Steep icy groomers are my most hated trails. I avoid them as much as possible, and certainly agree that they are death traps. And while im not great at bumps I will choose them every time over a tilted skating rink. I've taken a few death slides on ice over the years after a yardsale, lower Ovation at K comes to mind, and it's not fun. Less experienced skiers certainly can die in these situations as self arrest is not a given.

Sent from my LGMS345 using AlpineZone mobile app
 

deadheadskier

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
25,615
Points
38
Location
Southeast NH
Always so sad. Ski in Peace and prayers for the pain this family is now suffering.

Terrible but not unexpected.

Grooming=Death on steep trails like that. We've discussed this on AZ many times before. If the trail had been allowed to bump up as expert trails should this man would most likely be alive now.

Sorry for the soapbox rant but someone at Hunter needs to wake up and take notice.

RIP and heartfelt condolences to his family, truly sad.

I do agree with this

In the end, skiers are responsible for their own decisions. No one holds a gun to your head and tells you to ski faster than is safe for the current conditions.

I also agree with this too.

However, I think what Jim is saying is that seeing something groomed can often give skiers of lesser ability a false sense of security. Maybe they might pass over the trail if it's bumped. They'd certainly ski the trail slower with moguls and that lesser speed might prevent a tragedy like this one.

That said, we don't know anything about this particular skiers ability. I'm pretty skilled on icy groomers and definitely ski at a high rate of speed on some stuff that maybe I shouldn't. The judgment call on what is too fast for certain conditions isn't always easy to determine. We all can slip up or have an equipment malfunction at any moment and get into trouble.
 

moresnow

New member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
476
Points
0
I love this trail. It is always hard to hear of this happening.

The judgment call on what is too fast for certain conditions isn't always easy to determine. We all can slip up or have an equipment malfunction at any moment and get into trouble.

I've been on this trail when its been groomed and you can get a lot of laps in. I feel this this makes me acknowledge that voice that is always back there being cautious should have a bigger seat at the table sometimes.
 

kingslug

Active member
Joined
Dec 30, 2005
Messages
5,215
Points
38
Location
Stamford Ct and Stowe
I've slid 200 feet on Clairs when it was groomed and I caught an edge...plus..with a million people sliding all over it...its twice as dangerous.
 

joshua segal

New member
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
761
Points
0
Location
Southern NH
Website
skikabbalah.com
I haven't skied Hunter in many decades, but Iremember Annapurna as a terrific trail that was narrow with no snowmaking (don't know if it has been widened or has snowmaking). +1 for me on grooming trails like this and +1 for me on skiers choosing to be on trails for which they lack the skill and +1 for me on condolences to the family.
 

dlague

Active member
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Messages
8,789
Points
36
Location
CS, Colorado
This tragic and always sad to hear. Looking atbthe trail it does have a few turns. Those spots can get scraped off quickly and slick especially if groomed. What may ski well higher up can be totally different on turns as we all know. On trails like that I often cruise at slower speeds the first run to get a feel for conditions. Not sure how well this person knew the trail.

That being said, I wonder it was groomed due to icy bumps and it was an option to open the trail. Even icy bumps can be scary on steeper trails.

Sent from my SM-G930P using AlpineZone mobile app
 
Last edited:

JimG.

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Oct 29, 2004
Messages
10,966
Points
48
Location
Hopewell Jct., NY
Do you guys know that it was groomed?

It was flat as a pancake when I skied it on Sunday. They had recently made snow on it and the snow was firm but easy to carve.

Don't know if they groomed it subsequent to Sunday but my guess is they did.
 

JimG.

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Oct 29, 2004
Messages
10,966
Points
48
Location
Hopewell Jct., NY
I also agree with this too.

However, I think what Jim is saying is that seeing something groomed can often give skiers of lesser ability a false sense of security. Maybe they might pass over the trail if it's bumped. They'd certainly ski the trail slower with moguls and that lesser speed might prevent a tragedy like this one.

That said, we don't know anything about this particular skiers ability. I'm pretty skilled on icy groomers and definitely ski at a high rate of speed on some stuff that maybe I shouldn't. The judgment call on what is too fast for certain conditions isn't always easy to determine. We all can slip up or have an equipment malfunction at any moment and get into trouble.

Exactly.

In the old days Purna would bump up and they would leave it; there would be a gate at the top with a sign warning skiers to expect bumps and ungroomed conditions. People who should not have been there still tried to ski it, but the bumps would slow and stop them when they fell.

Now it's groomed flat and there are no signs like "Experts Only". And this is what happens when you dumb a steep trail down so anyone thinks they can ski it.

I agree with raisingarizona, nobody is twisting anyone's arm to ski anything. Unfortunately, sometimes people do need to be saved from themselves.
 

dlague

Active member
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Messages
8,789
Points
36
Location
CS, Colorado
Does expert translate to throwing caution to the wind? How often do advanced to expert skiers trust their abilities and automatically assume nothing will happen to them?

Sent from my SM-G930P using AlpineZone mobile app
 
Top