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Future of Snowmaking

RedSoxFan

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I am surprised they did not research the West Lake Project at Mt Snow, VT. quite impressive. new 121 million gallon reservoir and new supply pipes for a planned 100% mountain coverage. according to engineers, a dramatic shift from the incremental upgrades the industry has employed for years. This is a complete rebuild. Just read about it in the Mt. Snow magazine.
 

cdskier

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Is it just me or was the proofreading in that article horrible? I saw numerous typos and even some things that simply seem to not be what they meant to say.
 

Newpylong

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I am surprised they did not research the West Lake Project at Mt Snow, VT. quite impressive. new 121 million gallon reservoir and new supply pipes for a planned 100% mountain coverage. according to engineers, a dramatic shift from the incremental upgrades the industry has employed for years. This is a complete rebuild. Just read about it in the Mt. Snow magazine.

Impressive as it is There is nothing earth shattering or new technology wise about throwing more water on the hill.
 

dlague

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Impressive as it is There is nothing earth shattering or new technology wise about throwing more water on the hill.

I think the really cool technology is using remotely controlled snow guns that collect key data points! The guns get placed strategically and then turn them on from home. No need to haul hoses and guns around since they are stationary. Requires a lot of guns though.
 

ss20

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That was a pretty shitty article but if we want to use it to get the ball rolling, I'll bite.

I don't think automation is the way to go. $30-50k per automated gun is a lot compared to a traditional gun ($2k, 3k sound about right?). I find it very hard to believe that automated guns recoup their cost in energy efficiency and staffing...but hey, I'm probably wrong, because most resorts are flocking to these guns.

Newpylong said the technology hasn't changed much. True. Killington still lined up Superstar with K3000's for the world cup and the glacier building going on now. The snow quality of these guns rivals anything out there because they're so inefficient and they make a great product because of their inefficiency. My best run under the guns this year came at Killington on Cascade in early December. 10 degree day, and the guns was throwing out this beautiful snow quality that I haven't seen matched.
 

JimG.

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Is it just me or was the proofreading in that article horrible? I saw numerous typos and even some things that simply seem to not be what they meant to say.

I see those proofreading mistakes at an increasing rate throughout printed media. Anyone editing news anymore?

We already know that news media has gone to crap but poor writing, grammar, and spelling is insulting to the reader.
 

drjeff

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That was a pretty shitty article but if we want to use it to get the ball rolling, I'll bite.

I don't think automation is the way to go. $30-50k per automated gun is a lot compared to a traditional gun ($2k, 3k sound about right?). I find it very hard to believe that automated guns recoup their cost in energy efficiency and staffing...but hey, I'm probably wrong, because most resorts are flocking to these guns.

Newpylong said the technology hasn't changed much. True. Killington still lined up Superstar with K3000's for the world cup and the glacier building going on now. The snow quality of these guns rivals anything out there because they're so inefficient and they make a great product because of their inefficiency. My best run under the guns this year came at Killington on Cascade in early December. 10 degree day, and the guns was throwing out this beautiful snow quality that I haven't seen matched.
The key to why in COLD temps K still uses the K3000's is that in those temps they're actually quite efficient as they don't use much air at all.

In marginal temps, they make a bunch of snow, but also use a ton of air.

That is truly a great snowgun!!

Sent from my XT1254 using AlpineZone mobile app
 

JimG.

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So less jobs at ski areas?

Who is the winner in that case?

Nobody seems to care. Engineers openly brag about automation replacing jobs.

Funny thing is that computers will soon become better engineers as AI is forced upon humanity. Wonder who will be bragging on the soup kitchen line then.
 

machski

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I love how they open the article at Heavenly and note they have 200 snow guns as one of the largest out there. Wow, I think Pat's Peak has more guns in their arsenal.

Some of the automated guns are cool but you can't really move them around (granted the fan guns may be able to oscillate) like you could manual ground guns.

Surprised they didn't look into Loon. They use semi-automated hydrants on much of their prime runs off the gondi, HKD klick hydrants if I remember right to the SV10 guns. Pretty cool, single control point does both water and air (the airline looks like your typical garage air compressor hose). Supposedly auto deal a when it is shut off too. But again, can't really move these guns around, they stay put.

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Jully

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Suprisingly a major ski magazine only looked at one of, if not the best known ski area in the east and lead the article with an in depth look at a place in Cali with fewer guns than I think any resort with over 1200' vertical in the east.

Not saying Heavenly doesnt have a cool system and its all relative, but the expecting anything but the biggest player in the east to get a storyline is wishful thinking IMO.
 

Newpylong

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The key to why in COLD temps K still uses the K3000's is that in those temps they're actually quite efficient as they don't use much air at all.

In marginal temps, they make a bunch of snow, but also use a ton of air.

That is truly a great snowgun!!

Sent from my XT1254 using AlpineZone mobile app

The K guns use the same amount of air at any wet bulb if you give it to them. But, like any snow gun they become more efficient in colder temps and will produce more snow for equivalent mount of air. However they aren't like Low E guns that have a dial to change the mixture for you. You open the air hydrant wide open. What sets them apart from the other guns is that in marginal temps that 400 CFM they eat up is enough to nucleate when nothing else can. Then, at a cold wet bulb, that same amount of air will produce a remarkable amount of snow, comparable to first gen fan guns.

Remarkable, simple (can't break or freeze them) guns that many areas keep around for the right occasion.
 
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benski

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Nobody seems to care. Engineers openly brag about automation replacing jobs.

Funny thing is that computers will soon become better engineers as AI is forced upon humanity. Wonder who will be bragging on the soup kitchen line then.

The more AI. the higher the returns to labor are, that will increased productivity from those who can still be useful. Since AI will only increase our GDP meanwhile simultaneously reducing our need for labor it would make socialism more feasible since laziness is less of a concern.
 

cdskier

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I see those proofreading mistakes at an increasing rate throughout printed media. Anyone editing news anymore?

We already know that news media has gone to crap but poor writing, grammar, and spelling is insulting to the reader.

It drives me nuts. People are far too dependent on their word processor to tell them about mistakes so no one simply re-reads what they wrote to try to find errors on their own. A professional publication should also have an actual person that double-checks everything as well before it is published. It isn't that difficult.

I love how they open the article at Heavenly and note they have 200 snow guns as one of the largest out there. Wow, I think Pat's Peak has more guns in their arsenal.

That was another thing that bothered me about the article as soon as I saw that number. There are plenty of places in the east that have way more than 200 snow guns in their arsenal. Sunday River has over 2000. K has 1700. Stowe purchased over 600 new guns during their 2 year massive snowmaking upgrade a few years back. I'd be tempted to say they are once again forgetting the east even exists if it wasn't for the fact that they had an entire piece of the article talking about Killington.
 

JimG.

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The more AI. the higher the returns to labor are, that will increased productivity from those who can still be useful. Since AI will only increase our GDP meanwhile simultaneously reducing our need for labor it would make socialism more feasible since laziness is less of a concern.

Eventually there will be no need for anyone but the wealthiest who will control all assets.

Why give away money to people who do nothing?

I'm 59 so hopefully I will be dead before that really happens.
 

benski

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Eventually there will be no need for anyone but the wealthiest who will control all assets.

Why give away money to people who do nothing?

I'm 59 so hopefully I will be dead before that really happens.

To avoid another French revolution.
 

goldsbar

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3.5 million truck drivers are going to do what when automated trucks take over in a decade? And the people/hotels that service them?

The part of the article I found interesting was about making snow in the right places at the right time. Certain portions of a trail will always last longer than others due to sun and wind exposure, pitch, what's underneath and the shape underneath, etc. Seems like this doesn't get much attention now.
 
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