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Ikon Pass Changes and New Resorts for 2023

KustyTheKlown

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I think Crystal and Washington State in general is kind of unique. The Seattle area has exploded in population the past 30 years. The amount of ski terrain has not. So pushing prices might be more needed there

Not that unique when Salt Lake City and Denver are going thru the same shit. Both cities and seattle that I used to Long to move to, now I am so glad I never did, because of the ski crowding.
 

deadheadskier

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Not that unique when Salt Lake City and Denver are going thru the same shit. Both cities and seattle that I used to Long to move to, now I am so glad I never did, because of the ski crowding.

Sure, but I'd say Washington is a bit worse off. Look at the population of those states

Washington 7.7M people
Colorado 5.7M
Utah 3.2M

Then look at the available skiing facilities in driving range of Seattle, Denver and SLC. There is a HUGE amount more ski terrain available for Denver and SLC. Their issues are more related to transportation than actual chairlifts and trails.

That's why I think the situation in WA/Seattle is a bit more dire. They could build another 5 Crystal Mountains and still be well behind CO and UT in regards to available terrain within short distance of Seattle vs Denver and SLC. Washington also has the issue of limited lodging at their ski areas in comparison to CO and UT.

It will be interesting to see how the other local ski areas react to Crystals changes with pricing.
 

KustyTheKlown

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Sure, but I'd say Washington is a bit worse off. Look at the population of those states

Washington 7.7M people
Colorado 5.7M
Utah 3.2M

Then look at the available skiing facilities in driving range of Seattle, Denver and SLC. There is a HUGE amount more ski terrain available for Denver and SLC. Their issues are more related to transportation than actual chairlifts and trails.

That's why I think the situation in WA/Seattle is a bit more dire. They could build another 5 Crystal Mountains and still be well behind CO and UT in regards to available terrain within short distance of Seattle vs Denver and SLC. Washington also has the issue of limited lodging at their ski areas in comparison to CO and UT.

It will be interesting to see how the other local ski areas react to Crystals changes with pricing.

That’s all true, but one thing that’s nice about seattle particularly compared to Denver, and you touch on this with “transportation” is the ski areas are generally down different roads. Stevens is on 2, snoqualmie/alpental on 90, Crystal I forget the road but it’s a different one south of town. Baker you drive north from seattle. White pass you drive south. BC close enough too.

Denver for the most part you drive down 70 and it’s a nightmare every sat morning and Sunday evening.

SLC is kind of like seattle in that the ski areas are at least down multiple different routes - lcc, bcc, park city, Ogden.

Denver is such a bottleneck.
 

machski

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That’s all true, but one thing that’s nice about seattle particularly compared to Denver, and you touch on this with “transportation” is the ski areas are generally down different roads. Stevens is on 2, snoqualmie/alpental on 90, Crystal I forget the road but it’s a different one south of town. Baker you drive north from seattle. White pass you drive south. BC close enough too.

Denver for the most part you drive down 70 and it’s a nightmare every sat morning and Sunday evening.

SLC is kind of like seattle in that the ski areas are at least down multiple different routes - lcc, bcc, park city, Ogden.

Denver is such a bottleneck.
True on I-70 for Denver, but that has been the case since I interned out there in '95 traffic wise. Widening I-70 isn't happening anytime soon given the $$ it would cost to widen the Eisenhower. Then the legal and environmental challenges. Better to visit and park it in the mountains for the stay than move to Denver. Unless you can work and completely avoid weekends.
 

machski

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You act like this is a bad thing. Crystal has been particularly negatively effected by all this bullshit. I hope Ikon continues to raise prices year over year. Enough of this nonsense already.
Not necessarily a bad thing, but if this begins a trend industrywide, could be. I mean if they want to go back to base area season passes for all access and 7 or so days unlimited add ons, fine. But I'd those base all access single or small group (IE NEP pass) are going to cost big $$ and they do nothing to lower day ticket access costs, then yes this will be a start to a negative trend. The other thing with Crystal is they already pulsed their visits with paid parking and pre reservations required to access (or the bus I suppose). Not sure why they need to break off their pass to such a high cost AND keep all the parking payments and restrictions.

I see Deer Valley this year is also allowing it's pass holders to add a full Ikon for $300 as well (though the DV full access pass is $2675 then add the $300!). So the question is, how long til Alterra pivots more of their resorts to this. I would bet money Steamboat and Palisades would be the next in line, maybe Mammoth too.
 

pinion247

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These changes cannot come fast enough for DV. 8” of powder overnight and full lots by 9:30a, cars parked all around Deer Valley Drive, full buses. Turns a nice ski area into a complete shitshow. Though apparently none of these folks can seem to make their way into Triangle Trees. Where I type this. Alone with my thoughts 🤣
 

thetrailboss

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These changes cannot come fast enough for DV. 8” of powder overnight and full lots by 9:30a, cars parked all around Deer Valley Drive, full buses. Turns a nice ski area into a complete shitshow. Though apparently none of these folks can seem to make their way into Triangle Trees. Where I type this. Alone with my thoughts 🤣
So much for limiting ticket sales. Edgar Stern is rolling in his grave.
 

KustyTheKlown

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You act like this is a bad thing. Crystal has been particularly negatively effected by all this bullshit. I hope Ikon continues to raise prices year over year. Enough of this nonsense already.

im replying to myself to say i also think ikon shouldnt be unlimited anywhere. maybe fully owned destinations get 10 days each, but not unlimited. unlimited passes should be for indivdual mountains and they shoudlnt be inexpensive.
 

Zand

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im replying to myself to say i also think ikon shouldnt be unlimited anywhere. maybe fully owned destinations get 10 days each, but not unlimited. unlimited passes should be for indivdual mountains and they shoudlnt be inexpensive.
I feel like they only have unlimited destinations to make sure they stay competitive with Epic. Otherwise I don't disagree that it should probably be limited everywhere.
 

thetrailboss

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I feel like they only have unlimited destinations to make sure they stay competitive with Epic. Otherwise I don't disagree that it should probably be limited everywhere.
Almost all of IKON’s unlimited destinations are company-owned. The only ones that are not are operated by POWDR.
 

thetrailboss

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im replying to myself to say i also think ikon shouldnt be unlimited anywhere. maybe fully owned destinations get 10 days each, but not unlimited. unlimited passes should be for indivdual mountains and they shoudlnt be inexpensive.
We’re starting to see the cheap “come along” deals slowly disappear. Major real estate developments planned at Deer Valley (completely unnecessary), Crystal, and Steamboat (to some extent). That’s a big sign to me.
 

Zermatt

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im replying to myself to say i also think ikon shouldnt be unlimited anywhere. maybe fully owned destinations get 10 days each, but not unlimited. unlimited passes should be for indivdual mountains and they shoudlnt be inexpensive.
This would start to restore the world order, for skiing at least. I think cutting to 7-10 days for fully owned destinations is probably not enough though, 10 days is a lot of skiing for a vast majority of skiers.

For me, it wouldn't change anything. 27 days between Stratton, Sugarbush and Killington/Pico is plenty. For homeowners at Stratton for example a full season pass would seem logical but maybe for only some members of the family as 10 days might be plenty. Then it marries them to the mountain for longer vacations instead of the easy option of going out west to use your other days. Maybe full season pass holders also get a free Ikon Base pass.

I'll say it again. Stop giving sweetheart pass deals to college age kids (at least for weekend access), they are the worst customers. Start giving away mid-week non holiday passes (like $100-$200 for a season).
 

RichT

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This would start to restore the world order, for skiing at least. I think cutting to 7-10 days for fully owned destinations is probably not enough though, 10 days is a lot of skiing for a vast majority of skiers.

For me, it wouldn't change anything. 27 days between Stratton, Sugarbush and Killington/Pico is plenty. For homeowners at Stratton for example a full season pass would seem logical but maybe for only some members of the family as 10 days might be plenty. Then it marries them to the mountain for longer vacations instead of the easy option of going out west to use your other days. Maybe full season pass holders also get a free Ikon Base pass.

I'll say it again. Stop giving sweetheart pass deals to college age kids (at least for weekend access), they are the worst customers. Start giving away mid-week non holiday passes (like $100-$200 for a season).
As a retiree, don't touch my weekday pass!!!:cool:
 

mikec142

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This would start to restore the world order, for skiing at least. I think cutting to 7-10 days for fully owned destinations is probably not enough though, 10 days is a lot of skiing for a vast majority of skiers.

For me, it wouldn't change anything. 27 days between Stratton, Sugarbush and Killington/Pico is plenty. For homeowners at Stratton for example a full season pass would seem logical but maybe for only some members of the family as 10 days might be plenty. Then it marries them to the mountain for longer vacations instead of the easy option of going out west to use your other days. Maybe full season pass holders also get a free Ikon Base pass.

I'll say it again. Stop giving sweetheart pass deals to college age kids (at least for weekend access), they are the worst customers. Start giving away mid-week non holiday passes (like $100-$200 for a season).
I'm relatively new to the season pass game. For years I survived with quad packs at Sugarbush and trying to get whatever deals I could elsewhere (often paying a lot for a last minute day ticket). If full Ikon went to a limited number of days at Sugarbush, I'd be genuinely pissed. SB is a 5.5 hour trip. Even though I ski there more than anywhere else, I wouldn't want to be locked into a pass that was SB only or one that limited my time there.

I fully understand the angst that Alta/Jackson Hole/etc. skiers endure. But I'm not ready for wholesale changes.
 

ThatGuy

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A model that could work is having the base pass with no unlimited resorts. Then the next step up you could select a “home” mountain for unlimited skiing and only 3-5 days each at other resorts. Could be complicated since Alterra doesn’t own everything thats on IKON. Still would work for Sugarbush/Stratton though.

One thing is for sure these cheap unlimited passes are a bane to both locals and people who regularly ski the same mountain. Especially on weekends.
 

Zermatt

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I'm relatively new to the season pass game. For years I survived with quad packs at Sugarbush and trying to get whatever deals I could elsewhere (often paying a lot for a last minute day ticket). If full Ikon went to a limited number of days at Sugarbush, I'd be genuinely pissed. SB is a 5.5 hour trip. Even though I ski there more than anywhere else, I wouldn't want to be locked into a pass that was SB only or one that limited my time there.

I fully understand the angst that Alta/Jackson Hole/etc. skiers endure. But I'm not ready for wholesale changes.
How many days do you ski at SB? If you own property (or have access to property) then paying for unlimited use is worth the premium to restore the skiing experience. It's called skiing after all, not "standing in line." If you don't own property then 7 days is plenty because you get 7 more at Killington and 7 more at Stratton.....

Don't worry. I don't see this changing anytime soon. The 22/23 season is already set.

A full season pass at JHMR is on the order of $2,500+ I believe.
 

cdskier

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A model that could work is having the base pass with no unlimited resorts. Then the next step up you could select a “home” mountain for unlimited skiing and only 3-5 days each at other resorts. Could be complicated since Alterra doesn’t own everything thats on IKON. Still would work for Sugarbush/Stratton though.

One thing is for sure these cheap unlimited passes are a bane to both locals and people who regularly ski the same mountain. Especially on weekends.

I've long thought it would make sense to have to pick a "home" mountain with passes like Ikon where you get unlimited there and then everywhere else (even the ones owned by Alterra) have limits. I don't think it would be that complicated as Alterra could simply limit your "home" mountain choices to the ones they currently offer as unlimited options (i.e. mainly the ones they own). It would still have a ton of flexibility and value even with having to pick a home mountain for most people.
 

mikec142

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A model that could work is having the base pass with no unlimited resorts. Then the next step up you could select a “home” mountain for unlimited skiing and only 3-5 days each at other resorts. Could be complicated since Alterra doesn’t own everything thats on IKON. Still would work for Sugarbush/Stratton though.

One thing is for sure these cheap unlimited passes are a bane to both locals and people who regularly ski the same mountain. Especially on weekends.
I appreciate your thoughts. That said, the places where Ikon has (supposedly) overwhelmed the system has already limited days to 5-7. Alta/Snowbird/Big Sky/Jackson/etc. Would it make a material difference to limit those places to 3-5 days? If so, you'd have to significantly lower the price of the pass as it would provide a lot less value.

As a guy who gets between 10-15 at Sugarbush per year, I haven't noticed huge lines or issues. I get that some locals and regulars pine for the old days and the way it was...but I ski SB pretty much every Christmas/MLK/President's Day Weekend and I rarely run into any issues.
 
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