Introducing young children to skiing

[Greg]

My daughter turns two this winter and while a bit too young for ski school, I'm interested in getting her into it somehow. The family will be staying at Loon for a week in March and I was wondering what suggestions folks might have. I was thinking about picking up a pair of those little plastic skis and letting her tool around on them at the base. Thoughts?

 

[loafer89]

I started my son skiing when he was 23 months old at Mohawk Mtn, and we spent a week vacation at Killington shorly afterward with my son enrolled in their First Tracks program. Killington's First Tracks program is for children aged 2-3 years old and included day care and skiing lessons on the magic carpet area at the base of Rams Head. We started our son of with his own skis and boots, and with lessons from the very start. I would recommend that you get proper equiptment and lessons to make for a safe and sucessful
introduction to skiing for your child.

 

[Greg]

Does Mohawk offer lessons for children as young as two? The mountain is right up the road and if you feel the program is good, it'll be perfect.

 

[Greg]

Does Mohawk offer lessons for children as young as two? The mountain is right up the road and if you feel the program is good, it'll be perfect.

The Parents & Tots Program looks pretty good, but they need to be 4...

 

[loafer89]

Mohawk did not offer any programs for our son at that age, but we did get him a one hour private lesson for $60. It is expensive, but the instruction helped him make it up on the magic carpet and down the slope without falling within a short period of time. We chose Mohawk because it is our local ski area and the magic carpet area is closed off from the rest of the mountain, keeping the risk of injury from a collision to a minimum. The basic problem with children at such a young age(at least with my son) is that they do not have enough muscle development and body strength to handle the heavy ski/boot/clothing combination as well as a child at age 4-5. That is what most instructors told me anyway. I guess that is the reason that many children start at age 5 or later.

 

[jwind]

I started at three (between Dad's legs). I think the p;astic ski thing is a good idea... do you have a little slope in your backyard?

 

[ChileMass]

The "magic carpets" used for little kids and beginners at a lot of areas are a great improvment. They're like the moving walkways in airports and take beginners right up the baby slope without having to ride a lift at all. On the East Coast I believe Orford offers this, but I remember specifically my older daughter using it out at Copper in Colorado. Sugarloaf has a big sleigh-like thing they pull to the top of the beginner slope with a snowmobile, so when you go there again your little one can do that. Started both of my girls at Ski Ward, riding between Dad's legs when they were each about 4.

 

[Greg]

I think the p;astic ski thing is a good idea... do you have a little slope in your backyard?

Not really. Our yard is pretty flat, but I'm sure I can find some at a park somewhere. When we stay at Loon, there's a nice gentle slope right outside the suite that I think will be perfect. I think the plastic ski is a good route to go this season and maybe when she turns 3, I can start thinking about finding a ski school and get her real skis. Any thoughts on these:

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/snowshack/kidplasskisa.html

 

[teachski]

I started at three (between Dad's legs). I think the p;astic ski thing is a good idea... do you have a little slope in your backyard?

DON'T do this!!!!
Don't put your small child in between your legs to ski with them. No matter how good you are or think you are it is quite dangerous. Several years ago, while I was still patrolling, we had a parent do just that. He was a good skier, maybe even a great skier...I know he was on his college team. They were skiing on a gentle slope. The son crossed his tips and his ski crossed in front of his dad's toe piece. It got stuck under the binding and tripped up dad. Dad fell on the child. The child suffered from a spiral fracture with damage to the growth plate.

Dad refused patrol assistance and refused to sign the "refusal notice". Management was notified immediately and went to talk to him as he pulled his sons ski boots off (not gently at all). He finally let us check out his son.

The next year we heard that he had filed a law suit. He claimed that ski patrol ignored him, and his son on the slopes and that he had to go to management to get some assistance. He also claimed that we were negligent in removal of his son's ski boot and we were negligent in providing adequate care, as we did not cast his son's leg but rather put a "piece of cardboard" on it. (The typical NSP box splint, but he did not say that.)

Fortunately for the area, one of the ski instructors was video taping his young daughter skiing. He saw what was going on and took pictures of us with him on the hill. He was close enough to also get the verbal refusal for assistance on tape and to get a shot of him pushing away the treatment refusal notice and saying that he wasn't going to sign that. Hospital records showed that he did not take his son to the ER until 2 days later. The judge threw the case out.

No, don't put your child between your legs! I agree 100% with letting the child walk and play on skis, but I'd prefer to see the child in real ski boots with real skis too. There are boots available as small as size 8 and 9...we had a pair for my niece. Pine Ridge in Barre, MA also has some so I am sure that other areas do too. You may find some at a ski swap. If you want to take your child on to the slope, use one of the leashes, that way if they fall the chance that you will fall on them is greatly reduced

 

[RISkier]

Well, I'm not a parent and I'm a sucky skier so I have absolutely no credibility here (though I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night). I recall riding up a lift with an instructor and watching some very young ones. We started talking about when to start. He said, it really depended on the kid but he didn't think it was a good idea till about 5. His take was kids simply don't have the strength, motor skills, or attention span to deal with skiing. FWIW.

 

[Greg]

I started at three (between Dad's legs). I think the p;astic ski thing is a good idea... do you have a little slope in your backyard?

DON'T do this!!!!
Don't put your small child in between your legs to ski with them. No matter how good you are or think you are it is quite dangerous. Several years ago, while I was still patrolling, we had a parent do just that. He was a good skier, maybe even a great skier...I know he was on his college team. They were skiing on a gentle slope. The son crossed his tips and his ski crossed in front of his dad's toe piece. It got stuck under the binding and tripped up dad. Dad fell on the child. The child suffered from a spiral fracture with damage to the growth plate.

Dad refused patrol assistance and refused to sign the "refusal notice". Management was notified immediately and went to talk to him as he pulled his sons ski boots off (not gently at all). He finally let us check out his son.

The next year we heard that he had filed a law suit. He claimed that ski patrol ignored him, and his son on the slopes and that he had to go to management to get some assistance. He also claimed that we were negligent in removal of his son's ski boot and we were negligent in providing adequate care, as we did not cast his son's leg but rather put a "piece of cardboard" on it. (The typical NSP box splint, but he did not say that.)

Fortunately for the area, one of the ski instructors was video taping his young daughter skiing. He saw what was going on and took pictures of us with him on the hill. He was close enough to also get the verbal refusal for assistance on tape and to get a shot of him pushing away the treatment refusal notice and saying that he wasn't going to sign that. Hospital records showed that he did not take his son to the ER until 2 days later. The judge threw the case out.

No, don't put your child between your legs! I agree 100% with letting the child walk and play on skis, but I'd prefer to see the child in real ski boots with real skis too. There are boots available as small as size 8 and 9...we had a pair for my niece. Pine Ridge in Barre, MA also has some so I am sure that other areas do too. You may find some at a ski swap. If you want to take your child on to the slope, use one of the leashes, that way if they fall the chance that you will fall on them is greatly reduced

Sounds like a real jackass. Thanks for the feedback though.

I should clarify my goal for her this season. Last year on the family trip, we were slopeside and even at just over a year old, she was enthralled as the skiers came down the hill. There's a wide open area right outside the door with a very gentle pitch. I think this will be more of a mental exercise for her than a physical one. Knowing the little daredevil she is, I'm sure she'd be really excited if I suggested that it's time for her to go skiing. It may be more of a matter of her just standing there in the little plastic skis and maybe sliding around a bit.

My bigger concern would be other people skiing around. If any punks come recklessly close, there's going to get an ear-full from me for sure. I will wait for ski school for the real skis and bindings and of course, any sort of lift. At this point, I just think giving her the impression that she's really taking part of the actual "skiing" part of the ski vacation experience will be valuable.

 

[noreaster]

A few suggestions for introducing young children to skiing.

- Depending on the child, the age of 3, 4, or 5 is probably the best age to start skiing. I have found that age 4 worked best for my 3 kids.

- Children under 5 have no concept of speed. If they are under 6 years of age be extremely careful about taking them on something steeper than a green beginner trail without being tethered. I have seen many 4 year olds zooming down the hill out of control with their frantic parent trying to catch them. This is a very dangerous situation.

- Always keep it fun.

- Night before have the kids try on boots and skis in the living room. Teach them the wedge and bending knees for a good snowplow right there in the living room.

Laurie (techski) I know you said don’t ski with your children between their legs. I taught all 3 of my kids with them between my legs. Looking back I would probably do it again. At age 4 I took my first two children and made 2 runs down a green beginner trail with them between my legs. That’s all it took and they had a snowplow down good enough to control their speed and stop on a green trail. After a few more runs skiing on their own they did pick the speed up and I had to ski along side to tell them to slow down or I will have to scoop them up. They immediately slowed down. . I did not have them tethered on the green trails and maybe I should have. My youngest I started at age 3. The between the legs teaching technique did not work for her at age 3. I had to take her to an almost flat area where she built her confidence up such that she could snow plow on her own. I did have her tethered because of the very young age. Again it depends on the child. All 3 of my children were different and you wouldn’t want it any other way.

I have seen a 4 year old son of 2 ski instructors that was an expert skier. He would ski the entire mountain by himself at age 4. He skied a lot because he was too young to go to school. When loading he would hop up to get into the chair and the lifties would help put the safety bar down. He was strong enough to raise the safety bar by himself.

 

[teachski]

Alternative to the between the legs thing...if you are skilled enough, turn your wedge around and ski it backwards, facing the child. You are there to stop/slow the child, plus you can bend down to move his/her tips together. This way you can also see everything that is happening with them. NEVER say that you ski well enough not to fall on your own child if you have them in between your legs, the guy I told you about before surely was a good skier.

The tether really works well. We taught my niece that way. She was 22 mos when we started her on skis by letting her walk around and play on them. She wanted more! We did the tether thing about 5 times that season. The next season we also kept the tether on her. She is now 12 years old and is a great skier! She has actually been asked to teach. (She looks a lot older than 12)

Greg, I agree that you should only be having her walk and play on the skis this year. The plastic "toy" skis may be enough for this purpose. I advocate for the real thing because in the plastic skis they have their regular boots with no support (this could, even on the plastic skis lead to injury). I just didn't want to see her get hurt.

Also, I totally dislike the tip guards that keep a child in a wedge. With the new skis it is counter productive. I also feel that kids just starting should NOT have poles. They don't know what to do with the poles and they just get in the way. I teach at a small hill in MA so you know my background.

 

[jwind]

I started at three (between Dad's legs). I think the p;astic ski thing is a good idea... do you have a little slope in your backyard?

DON'T do this!!!!
Don't put your small child in between your legs to ski with them. No matter how good you are or think you are it is quite dangerous. Several years ago, while I was still patrolling, we had a parent do just that. He was a good skier, maybe even a great skier...I know he was on his college team. They were skiing on a gentle slope. The son crossed his tips and his ski crossed in front of his dad's toe piece. It got stuck under the binding and tripped up dad. Dad fell on the child. The child suffered from a spiral fracture with damage to the growth plate.

Dad refused patrol assistance and refused to sign the "refusal notice". Management was notified immediately and went to talk to him as he pulled his sons ski boots off (not gently at all). He finally let us check out his son.

The next year we heard that he had filed a law suit. He claimed that ski patrol ignored him, and his son on the slopes and that he had to go to management to get some assistance. He also claimed that we were negligent in removal of his son's ski boot and we were negligent in providing adequate care, as we did not cast his son's leg but rather put a "piece of cardboard" on it. (The typical NSP box splint, but he did not say that.)

Fortunately for the area, one of the ski instructors was video taping his young daughter skiing. He saw what was going on and took pictures of us with him on the hill. He was close enough to also get the verbal refusal for assistance on tape and to get a shot of him pushing away the treatment refusal notice and saying that he wasn't going to sign that. Hospital records showed that he did not take his son to the ER until 2 days later. The judge threw the case out.

No, don't put your child between your legs! I agree 100% with letting the child walk and play on skis, but I'd prefer to see the child in real ski boots with real skis too. There are boots available as small as size 8 and 9...we had a pair for my niece. Pine Ridge in Barre, MA also has some so I am sure that other areas do too. You may find some at a ski swap. If you want to take your child on to the slope, use one of the leashes, that way if they fall the chance that you will fall on them is greatly reduced

Guess my Dad was of poor judgment... nobody said skiing was safe.

-J " gonna start my son between my legs" wind

 

[teachski]

Hey, ya know...do what you want to, I am just trying to warn you that this is a dangerous practice. If you want to take the risk of injuring your own child go ahead, just don't come back and tell me that you should have listened to me.

Things were different when you learned to ski. Skis were different, bindings were different...there are many things that were different. Today's bindings, for the most part, have a gap at the front of the toe piece that is wide enough to catch skis. Skis are also thinner, most of them, than they were as little as 10 years ago. Think about what your dad was on when he taught you to ski. Also, today's shaped skis, by nature, want to turn when they are tipped on edge. To turn right both right edges are tipped to the snow. \\ To turn left both left edges are tipped to the snow. // When you are in a wedge, one is tipped each way /\, the skis want to turn right into each other...just think about it for a minute... you will see what I mean. This could spell disaster with a child between your legs. The Wedge, Snow plow, what ever you want to call it is not commonly emphasised as a "stopping" or "slowing" technique anymore. In fact, the wedge is not usually taught to beginners like it was before. There is no emphasis on the wedge at all.

 

[GadgetRick]

FWIW

First of all, I agree 100% with teach. I've not seen an injury like that (yet) but, with today's equipment, this type of fall/injury is more likely than it was even 10 years ago.

Anyway, I, too have a son who will turn 2 years old this winter (December). I would like to have him giving it all a shot. I spoke with some of the other patrollers who have kids/have taught their kids to ski. Here's some advice they gave me (sorry for the repeats):

1. Remember, at that age your child will pretty much only trust you, your spouse and maybe grandma and grandpa. It's tough to drop a 2 year old off in a class and expect him/her to trust a stranger (i.e. the instructor). Of course, this depends on the child. Anyway, you'll basically probably need to be the first person he/she works with.

2. In the beginning, ski backwards in front of your child. This is good for 2 reasons: 1) safety and 2) your child can see you. Remember, they trust you daddy, if they see you, they know you're there to protect them. Of course, you'll need to practice skiing backwards. Not as hard as you might think.

3. At 2 you may not even get them on the slopes. If they don't want to, just let them walk around the yard with boots on then let them stand with skis on. You just want to get them to get used to the feel.

4. Be patient. As any parent knows, children--especially at these ages--can be very trying. I see too many parents getting angry with their kids and pushing them to do more than the child wants to do. Please do not become one of those parents. It's not good for the child and they can get hurt.

Hope this helps. I hope my son has a good experience.

As a side note, my son is the youngest child ever to have a season pass at Belleayre Mountain. He was just 3 weeks old. So, technically, he can tell his friends he's been skiing since he was 3 weeks old. He's got the pass to prove it.

 

[skican]

Do the leash thing. I see it all the time. Little ones too! I saw a guy at Cannon and his child was just over 2. I was wishing for a camera cause it was the cutest thing I have ever seen and those little skis. Made me think about having another. LOL!

 

[Greg]

Thanks Rick. Your advice makes sense. Re: #2. I will probably just be in hiking boots for the first outings. There's a a gentle wide open slope near the hotel at Loon and I'll just play with her on that this year. Next year I'll try to get her in an actual ski school.

 

[Bkroon9175]

My advise is to make it FUN. The kids have to enjoy the experience. Don't push 'em. If they want a hot cocoa, give it to them. If they are hungry feed them their favorite food. I discovered that if the experience is fun they will want to come back even if the learning part is slow.

I also recommend a little instruction with an instructor and a little play time on the slopes with Mom and Dad. Let you kid see you fall on the snow. Stage a tumble. The more you are involved in a fun and enthusiatic way.thye more they will enjoy it.

 

[teachski]

I absolutely agree with Bkroon9175, you have to make it FUN! If it is not fun the child will not want to do it! Walking around is a great idea but if they take to it you might want to consider putting yourself on a short ski or a blade and playing little games with them. You know what I mean, come get daddy, I'm gonna get you type things. You should not have poles if they don't, they will want them too (like I said before, they have no clue what to do with them and they just get in the way).

When we were teaching my niece (close to 2) she would cry when she fell. We started to make a joke of it saying that the snow snakes got her. My sister would spank the snow and say, "bad snow" ...effective because my niece was never spanked and was never called bad. My niece quickly forgot about it and would start laughing and get back up ready to go again.

Rick's point #2 is great. I did mention this before, it's a great alternative to tethering if you do not wish to do that. I agree with all of Rick's points.

To answer uphillklimber - I do not have actual statistic on this nation wide. I can tell you that the most frequent injuries/complaints we see at the area I am are to the lower leg (skiers) and the wrist/shoulder (boarders). A lot of these complaints are the direct cause of ill-fitted equipment, parents who put an older sibbling's geer on the child rather than getting them proper fitting boots and properly sized skis. Many times these are just bruises, but unfortunately, at a ski area you can not tell so you splint it up and send them to the doctor. Some of the other accidents occur when kids to not get lessons for whatever reason and they ride the lift not knowing how to turn or stop.

As for the other portion of uphillclimber's post which refers to:
"In any case, I am sure the parents are motivated by concern for their child's safety, most of all. And hanging on to the kids has been a time proven method of insuring a childs safety. I guess I am asking for some comparisons from :
A) between the legs,
B) beside them all the way, and
C) the tether. "
A is definately the least safe of the 3 methods. B can work as long as you do not allow the child to hold on to, or lean into you and as long as you do not have them hanging on to a ski pole (which is a dangerous practice). C is by far the best, while you have some control over their speed and direction, they do to. They become more and more independent as they learn more about skiing. If you have a problem with a child that falls and stays down (not injured) they probably are not ready to be out there skiing...take them to a flat area and let them just walk around on the skis and play . Of course, if this is after skiing for a while it may just be their way of telling you they are tired.

Lessons are gerat for children over 3, but before that time they really don't get much out of them. My area will not take children under 3 for lessons.

When I have a lesson of "little guys" we play walking around getting used to being on the skis. We quack like ducks, play follow the leader, reach down and touch the snow as we are gliding, but most of all...I teach them to get up on their own. I certainly do not want to be picking them up all of the time and I know parents will appreciate the fact that they know how to get up.

How this is done: First of all, I can no longer get up this way because of a knee injury (not ski related), so I call on my niece to assist, she is great, she does exactly as I say when I say. She lays on the snow as if she has fallen. I tell her to roll on to her "belly" and point her toes to the outside. Her skis look like this \ /. I tell her to push up to her knees. and finally I tell her to put one foot flat on the ground and get up the rest of the way. (I've found this to be the easiest and most natural way for the little ones to get up.)

After we have mastered walking and getting up I work on making a "J" turn on a gentle slope. I show them that by doing this they will stop. (I do NOT use snowplow at this stage though some are basically already in this because their parents have told them that they have to be - not true). We practice this in both directions. Then we climb a little higher and link 2, then 3, etc. When they can successfully do this I take them up the rope tow.

We make a game out of the whole thing though. On return lessons I bet them that they can't make 5 turns (or what ever), we have contests to see who can make the most turns, etc. By the second lesson I usually have them to the top of the rope and some even to the top of the T-bar (we do not have a chair).

I am terrible with names so I call them the names of disney characters...they love this. Before Christmas we play follow the leader while singing Christmas songs. Ya gotta make it FUN!