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Permanent Industry Changes in the Post-COVID World

boston_e

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Agree 100%

What many bemoaning the anti-vaxxers don't seem to understand, is that in a public health setting, there is often a difference between society having 100% access to something (the vaccine short of a very small number of specific medically reasoned people) and the often Utopianesque fantasy of 100% utilization of that public health opt
The simple fact is that regardless of how much time, efforts, and $$ is spent trying to get to 100% utilization, short of a military style dictatorship, it's not going to happen.

For those practically obsessing about this, you've done your part, the simple fact is that your very, very, very, very likely to be safe if you contract a breakthrough case or come in contact with a vaccinated person, and one could certainly make the point that you may actually be doing more mental harm to yourself worrying about those who don't want to get vaccinated.

You've done your part, now start living your life again, and as you start to go about things in a more normal fashion, every day you'll see how much better you feel and how the folks that don't want to get vaccinated actually don't affect your life (in spite of how some of our elected officials and media pundits want you to believe they do)

I just wonder if some who are so staunchly in the "everyone must get vaxxed" rule following mentality are just as staunchly behind say not ducking a rope on a powder day that patrol still has up for rule following - afterall both situations are about our safety...
I get the point you and ABC are making, and while I'm not particularly worried about getting sick myself, the unvaccinated do affect others. Examples would be in many work or school settings if there is an exposure, all are subjected to the same quarantine restrictions. So if one of my vaccinated sons is exposed to some unvaccinated kid in his classroom, he will potentially be subjected to the same restrictions as the rest of the class and then has to miss school for some number of days. (Evidently he would be able to test out of quarantine sooner than an unvaccinated) All because some idiot parents won't do the right thing.

The unvaccinated are still overcrowding hospitals in many areas - we have already seen anecdotal examples of people with non covid ailments not being able to access care because of overcrowding.

There is also currently a significant portion of the population unable to get vaccinated at this time.
 

abc

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he unvaccinated do affect others. Examples would be in many work or school settings if there is an exposure, all are subjected to the same quarantine restrictions. So if one of my vaccinated sons is exposed to some unvaccinated kid in his classroom, he will potentially be subjected to the same restrictions as the rest of the class and then has to miss school for some number of days. (Evidently he would be able to test out of quarantine sooner than an unvaccinated) All because some idiot parents won't do the right thing.
The example you're citing is a good one. But it could theoretically be alleviated by daily testing of the unvaccinated.

Yes, I know it's not being done currently. Some places are doing weekly testing, which is not quite frequent enough. Then there's the cost of the testing, which in my personal view should be bore by those who choose to not get vaccinated ("choose to", not unable).

There're solutions to get back to normal for the vaccinated. But sadly there's a lack of political will to do it. To my, too much effort are being wasted to "protect" those who don't want the protection.

I fear, no amount of carrot is going to entice the vaccine decliners to change their mind. And the "stick" of vaccine mandate is pushing the boundary of civil liberty. (yes, I know the court had upheld all the vaccine mandates, but it's a Pandora's box, the less we open it, the fewer "curses" we'll have to deal with)
 

dblskifanatic

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I get the point you and ABC are making, and while I'm not particularly worried about getting sick myself, the unvaccinated do affect others. Examples would be in many work or school settings if there is an exposure, all are subjected to the same quarantine restrictions. So if one of my vaccinated sons is exposed to some unvaccinated kid in his classroom, he will potentially be subjected to the same restrictions as the rest of the class and then has to miss school for some number of days. (Evidently he would be able to test out of quarantine sooner than an unvaccinated) All because some idiot parents won't do the right thing.

The unvaccinated are still overcrowding hospitals in many areas - we have already seen anecdotal examples of people with non covid ailments not being able to access care because of overcrowding.

There is also currently a significant portion of the population unable to get vaccinated at this time.
Also

So if one of your vaccinated sons is exposed to some vaccinated kid in his classroom that gets covid, The results are the same.

From CDC
As of September 7, 2021, more than 176 million people in the United States had been fully vaccinated against COVID-19. During the same time, CDC received reports from 49 U.S. states and territories of 14,115 patients with COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough infection who were hospitalized or died. The total number of deaths is unclear but they say that 85% are 65 or older.

This does not include those that are asymptomatic and flu like symptoms that are not going to the hospital. That number we will never know. Where my son is stationed in the Army, they have a whole set of barracks dedicated to covid cases - projected to be non fatal. He says that the rooms are filling up. The military requires vaccines. They way they are managing it is weird he got covid about a week ago and now he has a roommate that just got it this week. You would think that they would group to tighter timeframes. They were doing 1 person per room but that max has been reached.
 

dblskifanatic

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The example you're citing is a good one. But it could theoretically be alleviated by daily testing of the unvaccinated.

Testing has to be for everyone the vaccinated can get covid too! Why does everyone feel like vaccinated can walk around freely and everything is OK. Better off more than likely, But if a vaccinated person gets Covid they are just as much of a spreader as the unvaccinated. In fact in some case are even silent spreaders due to lack of symptoms.
 

dblskifanatic

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there will always be a handful of pieces of shit like you in any crowd, no matter the rule, you're correct about that bit.

is that necessary? Are you that worked up over this? Seriously - you points of view are absurd.

BTW have you ever ducked a rope for freshies?
 

dblskifanatic

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Yes they match your ID to a CDC card. About as good as an option available with current tech. Certainly could be better options. Like I said, tying vax status to the ticket QR code.

You really seemed to be bothered by all of this. I'm surprised you just didn't skip the D&C show all together. Vote with your wallet while the opportunity is currently there to do so.

Vaccinations have been recorded on paper and there are many who have copied these and digitally modified and reprinted on the same card stock, It is pretty easy especially with the younger tech savvy crowd. I am pretty sure that someone checking vax cards would not be able to tell the difference. Heck when we are in NYC recently they had signs on the restaurant doors stating the show of vax proof was required. we started to take the cards out and they waved us in without looking.
 

abc

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Testing has to be for everyone the vaccinated can get covid too! Why does everyone feel like vaccinated can walk around freely and everything is OK. Better off more than likely, But if a vaccinated person gets Covid they are just as much of a spreader as the unvaccinated. In fact in some case are even silent spreaders due to lack of symptoms.
"Can" and likely isn't the same thing!

Research from other countries indicated the vaccinated are far less likely to catch Covid, symptomatic or otherwise. They're also less likely to spread it due to the simple fact their antibody can suppress the virus faster than the unvaccinated.
 

jimmywilson69

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is that necessary? Are you that worked up over this?
this is exactly what I'm talking about people have to be so extreme about everything and if you don't align completely with them you are the asshole...

Our country is fucked because this is the only way people know how to talk to each other now...
 

dblskifanatic

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I think then that especially amongst the vaccinated, that we all can pitch in for the common good and realize that unless you're say over 80 with MULTIPLE co-morbidities, that you can certainly live your life pretty normally right now, even if you do come across someone who isn't vaccinated.

I am surprised at this statement you made! I think living normally - we are far from that. Some places are starting to clamp down again. Also Vaccinated as you know does not equal covid resistance. If you live your life normally which I do the best I can then you are willing to risk that your symptoms will be less (hopefully) or you do not contract covid at all. There are a lot of breakthrough cases and more than we will ever know. Just like there were many covid cases prior to vaccinations that never were tested and never counted that number we will never know either.
 

abc

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I am surprised at this statement you made! I think living normally - we are far from that. Some places are starting to clamp down again. Also Vaccinated as you know does not equal covid resistance. If you live your life normally which I do the best I can then you are willing to risk that your symptoms will be less (hopefully) or you do not contract covid at all. There are a lot of breakthrough cases and more than we will ever know. Just like there were many covid cases prior to vaccinations that never were tested and never counted that number we will never know either.
Too much of the pandemic talk had been derailed by all the edge cases! Medical science is rarely binary. You maybe unlikely to catch Covid, or likely to catch it and even likely to die. But nothing is absolute.

The whole business of breakthrough infection blah blah blah is missing the real point, which is every bit of intervention help to reduce the probability of spread, and every bit of intervention reduces the probability of getting severely ill or dying! But reducing probability doesn't equate zero probability.

By refusing all of the intervention, the anti-vaxxer, as well as those who refuse to go out after vaccination, are failing to grasp the concept of risk reduction.

The same argument we hear over and over on helmet debates! From both side of the debate too. :(
 
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ThatGuy

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He also was skiing in Vt all of last winter from NYC and drove to Maine while on one of his trips. So theres another example of rules for thee not for me. I don’t have a dog in this fight either way its just a little ridiculous to be saying kill the unvaxed (even if its hyperbole) while having skirted the rules yourself last year.
 

dblskifanatic

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"Can" and likely isn't the same thing!

Research from other countries indicated the vaccinated are far less likely to catch Covid, symptomatic or otherwise. They're also less likely to spread it due to the simple fact their antibody can suppress the virus faster than the unvaccinated.

To enter Canada vaccinated or not Covid testing is required. We are going to Turks and Caicos the vaccinated require testing as well. To return to the US vaccinated also require testing - they must all be way off base on your can vs likely. Boston is in the everyone wear a mask territory again and others are going in the same direction - why because there is a likelihood that vaccinated can get covid.

In Massachusetts, 5,259,794 people or 76% of the state has received at least one dose. Yet we are status of red in all areas except the Cape.
 

dblskifanatic

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Not any more.


I'm afraid you're the one who's way off. Or rather, hanging onto outdated information.

All air passengers coming to the United States, including U.S. citizens and fully vaccinated people, are required to have a negative COVID-19 test result or documentation of recovery from COVID-19 before boarding a flight to the United States.
 

abc

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All air passengers coming to the United States, including U.S. citizens and fully vaccinated people, are required to have a negative COVID-19 test result or documentation of recovery from COVID-19 before boarding a flight to the United States.
That’s only for air passengers. Not for land border crossings.
 
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