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Powdr is going FastPass at Copper, K, Snowbird and Bachelor

ss20

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That was the Snowbird model pre-Ikon. Now those folks buy IKON passes, stay in SLC, maybe do Snowbird a few days, and go to other areas. The $1,000's of revenue that Snowbird used to get is now reduced to about $18.00 credit from Alterra per IKON pass per day. Why, why a business do that? I guess the desire to be with cool kids is strong.

They want to attract cheap bastards like myself :LOL:
 

thetrailboss

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They want to attract cheap bastards like myself :LOL:
I honestly think it is their new "solution" to make up the lost revenue from switching over to IKON. In the abstract, it kind of makes sense--IKON passholder visits, IS NOT paying Snowbird anything out of pocket, so why not plunk down the extra amount? It is still less than a lift ticket.

But what they forget is that they already have that premium crowd who pays somewhere between $10-20k if not more for Seven Summits. For every ONE of those families who leaves that means that Cumming now needs at least 150-300 or so to pay the "starting at $69" charge for this FastCrap. Do you or anyone think they will see at least those numbers? My money is no. I also think that a big, fat bird in the hand is worth 150 in the bush.

It all goes back to making up for that $18 or so credit they get for every IKON pass. Remember, the split that $35ish number per day with Alta. And as I said a few weeks ago, when a frontline Snowbird employee is telling a guest like me, "gee, we have to find anyway to make money for the resort", then something is really wrong. Guests don't generally want to hear that.
 
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I honestly think it is their new "solution" to make up the lost revenue from switching over to IKON. In the abstract, it kind of makes sense--IKON passholder visits, IS NOT paying Snowbird anything out of pocket, so why not plunk down the extra amount? It is still less than a lift ticket.
Where are you getting that Snowbird gets no cash from Ikon visits?
 

thetrailboss

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Where are you getting that Snowbird gets no cash from Ikon visits?
In the context of my comment above, the IKON passholder does not directly pay Snowbird for a lift ticket. So the mentality of Snowbird is, "well, in that case, they may be more inclined to pay the FastPass price." The whole point is to make more revenue.

As I said last year, from a source in the know, IKON partners get $1 million upfront each year and bill against that amount until they reach 30k skier days. Then Alterra pays them $74 a day per pass used.

Snowbird and Alta share IKON access. So each split the proceeds of about $33.00 a day, or $16.50 each until they get to the ski days. Then they each get $37 per day.

The intent is that IKON passholders will make up the difference by buying food, lodging, souvenirs, etc. The reality is that ain't happening to the volume they had hoped at Snowbird at least. And as you likely know the locals want to burn the management of both resorts to the stake over crowding issues.
 

ss20

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And I am bound by a NDA. Pretty standard stuff when you run marketing for a ski resort like Snowbird and have access to almost every scrap of data.

Rumor's of ikons workings got out on this forum about a year ago and the virtual armchair ski resorts accountants were in full-force for a month...
 

thetrailboss

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Hi -
Haven't posted here in a while. Just wanted to let you know that you're incorrect on the Ikon yields for Snowbird.
As said, then please correct us. It's clear that the "yield" is still much lower than what Snowbird would get from its own passholders. I am also amazed that the partner resorts don't have any issue with Alterra having access to that same data, which if IKON ever ends could be used by Alterra to compete against these resorts. Of course I can see that they all contractually agreed not to do that, but things change.........
 
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BenedictGomez

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The K experiment failed because of massive massive pushback from passholders.

I'm not surprised. I see this having a better shot at a suitcase resort where the names & faces turnover each week, as opposed to a place with a far higher percentage of a loyal repeat following. Who as a paying season passholder would then want to repeatedly get jumped in line every day. lol
 

BenedictGomez

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when a frontline Snowbird employee is telling a guest like me, "gee, we have to find anyway to make money for the resort", then something is really wrong. Guests don't generally want to hear that.

The last time I was there the employees were miserable. It was palpable. To the point it was bizarre & I've genuinely never experienced anything like it in my life. Usually if you hear one employee badmouth their employer during a stay, it's unusual and noteworthy, but in the span of staying there for only a short stay we heard numerous employees ripping Snowbird. It was awkward & unusual.
 

cdskier

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How does Alterra know they're not being lied to? I assume there must be some sort of verification.
The same way they know how many days I've skied at each resort on my Ikon pass and whether my pass is valid or not when it gets scanned...
 

thetrailboss

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The last time I was there the employees were miserable. It was palpable. To the point it was bizarre & I've genuinely never experienced anything like it in my life. Usually if you hear one employee badmouth their employer during a stay, it's unusual and noteworthy, but in the span of staying there for only a short stay we heard numerous employees ripping Snowbird. It was awkward & unusual.
That's why I am hoping that John will move on. We are on Year 3 of the hot mess.
 

thetrailboss

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And probably the contractual writing that should a resort "fudge" any numbers they don't get a dime from Alterra.
Right. But I find it a hard thing to really fudge in this day and age. All the passes are RFID. And a good many skiers and riders use the IKON app which has a GPS function.
 

ss20

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I honestly think opening a main lift an hour early for people is overall better. Could you get 100 people to pony up $50 on Saturday's/Sunday's for early access? Maybe. That'd be more acceptable to most people, IMO. You get an hour of being special with an uncrowded lift, first tracks, and a few dozen people on the trails...then you're mixed in with the unwashed masses once the opening bell rings. Cons would be you need to pay lifties that additional hour, grooming has to be done and patrol has to do the opening sweep in whatever area is opening early. But now you're selling an upcharged, unique experience... not a line cutting tool a la Six Flags or Disney. The phrase "Upcharged, unique experience" makes any ski resort marketer jizz themselves (or any form of entertainment, for that matter).

But...this FastPass will probably be more popular with the masses and generate more money than my idea above. However, it's a tasteless PR disaster and will certainly piss off passholders and locals. And...I find this naïve on Powdr's part...each destination has an equal-caliber rival ski resort just down the road (less so for Bachelor but there are other options). I also think for every day that this pass is useful/profitable, there'll be 3 days where people will feel they wasted their money. A family that gets the big sell on a FastPass for each family member for every day of their midweek ski vacation at Killington is going to feel absolutely used when the longest wait they experienced their whole week was 3 minutes to get on the K1 or Ramshead at 10am.
 

deadheadskier

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I like the Sugarloaf model. Pony up for the top tier pass and get an hour of first tracks on Sunday morning. They also offer it to groups as they did each year for the AZ Summit. It offers a little bit of exclusivity without totally thumbing noses at the everyday skier.

I loved the experience. You could rip out 5-6 runs like it's a midweek crowd free day, then also get a head start on the upper mountain lifts before the crowds built up on those chairs.
 
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