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Sick of fake snow

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Snowlover

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I haven't been skiing that long. BUT, I'm done skiing fake snow. Someone really needs to make a snowgun that pumps out snow that doesn't turn to ice/crud in a second instead of using 40 year old tech. I'm not going skiing anymore unless it's real snow. I'm sick of it. I just don't have fun in ice/crud crap. It's really quite amazing how quickly that stuff turns to shit. They were blowing snow yesterday at the place in ct I went all night. I went in the morning first thing and ALREADY it turns to crud/hardpack. It was 0 degrees with low humidity out so "perfect" snow making weather My ski's were chattering like crazy.(they don't chatter at all on real snow groomers) That's how hard it was already. Nothing like skiing the real stuff groomed where it's beautiful smooth and much more fun. It's actual SNOW you're skiing. I've decided I will never buy a pass anywhere near me. Just not enough natural snow.I'm only buying a lift ticket when it's snowed(doesn't have to be a lot of snow....even 2 inches is enough to drastically change the conditions assuming they don't blow the fake crap at the same time)

In closing....snow guns suck(except to quickly build a base for natural to fall on)
 

Snowlover

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Don't feed the Troll!!

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Why are you even posting in my threads? You're the one clearly trolling me. I'm discussing skiing and giving an opinion. That's what this forum is for. Kiss my ass
 

Snowlover

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Without snowmaking there would be almoat no east coast skiing....

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Yeah ec skiing sucks. (outside of lake effect regions where they actually get a descent amount of snow)I'd rather ride nothing than ice/crud crap. Someone needs to make a BETTER snowgun and just use the snowgun to lay base. Don't blow that shit when it's snowing out or has snowed in the past few days. I'm not paying for a lift ticket to ride ice anymore. I'm just going when it has snowed. Hopefully these area's aren't blowing snow during that time. The worst is when they blow the fake stuff AFTER it stops snowing naturally in the middle of the night. It will totally wreck it.
 

dlague

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November, December and possibly January would not have any skiing and the industry as we know it would die in New England. Snow making when not touched by warmer days, better yet #ain is very still nice to ski on. One of the problems is that some ski areas start early snow making knowing that there is high probability for melting or #ain and then it becomes very hard (frozen). Guess what - natural snow that gets packed down and groomed or untouched even gets the same way when it melts or #ained on. Try going in the woods right now - no snow making there and it is hard as a rock! Snow making is much of the reason there is skiing into late April and early May!

When I was 19 I worked on a snow making crew and I know from experience that snow makers work hard and have very tough hours under harsh conditions - respect!
 

Snowlover

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November, December and possibly January would not have any skiing and the industry as we know it would die in New England. Snow making when not touched by warmer days, better yet #ain is very still nice to ski on. One of the problems is that some ski areas start early snow making knowing that there is high probability for melting or #ain and then it becomes very hard (frozen). Guess what - natural snow that gets packed down and groomed or untouched even gets the same way when it melts or #ained on. Try going in the woods right now - no snow making there and it is hard as a rock! Snow making is much of the reason there is skiing into late April and early May!

When I was 19 I worked on a snow making crew and I know from experience that snow makers work hard and have very tough hours under harsh conditions - respect!
I understand you need snow making due to lack of natural snow. I'm simply stating I'm not paying for a lift ticket anymore unless it's real snow and I wish they wouldn't blow snow when it's snowing naturally As far as how hard someone is working? I don't see the relevance there since I never stated anything about that(ie if the snowmakers worked harder it would be better). I'm saying the machines themselves suck.

As far as natural snow becoming hard as a rock....that only happens with a melt/thaw cycle. It was 50 degrees and raining and then dropped to 0 degrees! Of course anything will turn to crap when that happens. The difference is that fake snow turns to ice no matter withing hours(sometimes minutes) of being groomed/touched/skied on. The real stuff will last good for days assuming no severe thaw. Also, the groomers can fix the natural snow if it just has a thin layer of ice on top. The fake stuff turns ice/crud quick. They should call it crud machines....not snow machines ;)

Oh and there was a ski industry here before snowguns, but I agree you need them to lay down a base due to lack of natural.
 

drjeff

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I haven't been skiing that long. BUT, I'm done skiing fake snow. Someone really needs to make a snowgun that pumps out snow that doesn't turn to ice/crud in a second instead of using 40 year old tech. I'm not going skiing anymore unless it's real snow. I'm sick of it. I just don't have fun in ice/crud crap. It's really quite amazing how quickly that stuff turns to shit. They were blowing snow yesterday at the place in ct I went all night. I went in the morning first thing and ALREADY it turns to crud/hardpack. It was 0 degrees with low humidity out so "perfect" snow making weather My ski's were chattering like crazy.(they don't chatter at all on real snow groomers) That's how hard it was already. Nothing like skiing the real stuff groomed where it's beautiful smooth and much more fun. It's actual SNOW you're skiing. I've decided I will never buy a pass anywhere near me. Just not enough natural snow.I'm only buying a lift ticket when it's snowed(doesn't have to be a lot of snow....even 2 inches is enough to drastically change the conditions assuming they don't blow the fake crap at the same time)

In closing....snow guns suck(except to quickly build a base for natural to fall on)

Manmade snow when done right in the proper conditions with the proper PATIENCE from both the mountain and the skiing/riding public can be 98% of what natural snow is.

All too often when enough manmade snow is present, a ski area will quickly drop the ropes on a trail to get it open. In reality, that manmade snow needs to sit and drain and dry out a bit before it should be manipulated, either by skiers/riders or grooming equipment. If you get the chance to ski on some fresh manmade snow that has had a good 24hrs or so to just sit their and drain and dry out, without and disturbance, it will ski/ride very close to most groomed natural snow surfaces.

Early manipulation to manmade snow tends to cause it it set up and feel firm or icy soon after the guns are shut off. Most of it has to do with the crystalline shape of manmade snow vs. natural snow, where manmade tends to be more round and hence ends up being more dense as the crystalline piece "fit" together tighter than natural snow with it's classic "snowflake" shapes which allows more air between the flakes and causes them to "fit together" less tightly.

All snow is good in my book! I will agree though that some snow is better than other snow. But as long as I'm sliding downhill on it will a couple of "planks" attached to my feet, I'm all good with snow! :)
 

JimG.

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You need to move out west. Without manmade you'll be skiing rocks and dirt on the EC.
 

Snowlover

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Manmade snow when done right in the proper conditions with the proper PATIENCE from both the mountain and the skiing/riding public can be 98% of what natural snow is.

All too often when enough manmade snow is present, a ski area will quickly drop the ropes on a trail to get it open. In reality, that manmade snow needs to sit and drain and dry out a bit before it should be manipulated, either by skiers/riders or grooming equipment. If you get the chance to ski on some fresh manmade snow that has had a good 24hrs or so to just sit their and drain and dry out, without and disturbance, it will ski/ride very close to most groomed natural snow surfaces.

Early manipulation to manmade snow tends to cause it it set up and feel firm or icy soon after the guns are shut off. Most of it has to do with the crystalline shape of manmade snow vs. natural snow, where manmade tends to be more round and hence ends up being more dense as the crystalline piece "fit" together tighter than natural snow with it's classic "snowflake" shapes which allows more air between the flakes and causes them to "fit together" less tightly.

All snow is good in my book! I will agree though that some snow is better than other snow. But as long as I'm sliding downhill on it will a couple of "planks" attached to my feet, I'm all good with snow! :)
That bold sentence is very Interesting. They could do that in ct if they just do one or two trails at a time rather than being obsessed with being 100% open. I've noticed something as well. When they are actively blowing snow on a trail and there's a thin layer of untouched fake over the groomer.....it's not that bad! It's not icy. It's not as good as real snow, but a million times better than the usual ice/crud. It closes the gap. I think it's once they groom/compress the fake snow due to it's higher water content that it ices up. I'm also wondering if they just blew a 1/2 inch laye over the groomer lines that it would solve a lot of the problems and stop the icing? In other words....blow a ton of snow....let it sit for a while....then groom....then....blow a thin layer over the top? If I managed a mountian, I would definetly experiment with this. You'll have a much better product for people
 

soposkier

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Yeah ec skiing sucks. (outside of lake effect regions where they actually get a descent amount of snow)I'd rather ride nothing than ice/crud crap. Someone needs to make a BETTER snowgun and just use the snowgun to lay base. Don't blow that shit when it's snowing out or has snowed in the past few days. I'm not paying for a lift ticket to ride ice anymore. I'm just going when it has snowed. Hopefully these area's aren't blowing snow during that time. The worst is when they blow the fake stuff AFTER it stops snowing naturally in the middle of the night. It will totally wreck it.


Don't ski groomers and you are all set. Plenty of non snowmaking trails out there. You ever ski outside of connecticut? When conditions are like they are right now, manmade is unfortunately your only option. I agree that I would usually not buy a day ticket when conditions are like this, but without manmade there would be no skiing right now. Look at MRG, no snowmaking and not open right now.
 

Snowlover

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Also, making snow whales could also be a source of the problem. Why not just move the guns around more so that the groomers don't have to tear that apart and severely compress it. I notice when the groomers are moving those whales, the snow is forming into CHUNKS. I bet that plays into as well
 

Savemeasammy

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Do yourself a favor: just go ski whenever you can, whether it's manmade or natural. If you can ski in New England, you can ski anywhere. When the natural falls, you will ski it that much better, and you will enjoy it more. In my book, manmade trumps dirt, rocks and grass. If not for manmade, most of New England's mountains would be screwed. Especially the ones in your neck of the woods. My local mountain is 100% open due to snowmaking, and I am grateful for it.
 

drjeff

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Also, making snow whales could also be a source of the problem. Why not just move the guns around more so that the groomers don't have to tear that apart and severely compress it. I notice when the groomers are moving those whales, the snow is forming into CHUNKS. I bet that plays into as well


Surprisingly enough, the whales, when utilized correctly, will provide long term a superior product to a thin top dressing of manmade snow. First off the larger vertical mass of a whale actually allows the new, "wet" mandmade crystalline snow to drain better since there is less of the final product exposed to the cold air and the overall chances of a frozen, icy final product are decreased. Secondly, if there's any chance of warmth in the near future, and whale will hold up better, with less snow loss than a thin layer of manmade snow.

Grooming a whale out that has had enough time to "dry" will provide a very nice, smooth, consistant surface to make turns on. If its groomed out too soon, then you can get some larger, frozen chunks.

There are sometimes, such as when an area is trying to get open early season, with marginal temps that they will groom out manmade snow early, with the intent to get some freeze up to form some solid base snow, since once an area has a decent amount of base snow on a trail, then even without fresh snowmaking, they can recover from a thaw/freeze with a good surface, but utilizing the same principles (let the snow drain before grooming it) and then they can also "dig" down into some of the deeper base snow and mix that with the top layer. Most modern grooming is far more than just making passes over the snow with the groomer and it's tiller down. there's a bunch of snow farming and moving of snow around the trail from areas where it gets pushed to by downhill traffic back into areas where it's needed, sometimes, even without the presence of a thaw/freeze it will see a trail being "taken" apart, the layers mixed and spread around and then regroomed overnight, and all this happens without the vast majority of skiers/riders realizing it.

Modern, good snowmaking an grooming is a mix of art, science, patience and mother nature. And sometimes that last variable, mother nature will ultimately trump the art, science and patience. And when she does, that in the ends makes us better skiers and riders for learning to adapt and concur her wrath! ;) :)
 

Hawkshot99

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Yes the ski industry did exist before mass snowmaking. There would be years that some places barely operated and ended up losing tons of money.
You talk of how to make snow like your a expert on the subject(just like helmets.....) but you fail to consider that these mtns have been making snow for a long time with lots of experimentaion.
Yea blowing snow at 1/2" intervals might make some decent snow but no work would ever get done. When there is conditions to make snow, you make it at full blast while you can.
This yearbhas been horrible for conditions. Heavy rains and warm temps followed by deep freeze.
The 3 mtns I know of with minimal snow making MRG/Magic/Hickory are either not open, or barely operating.
Give me manmade any day!

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twinplanx

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Why are you even posting in my threads? You're the one clearly trolling me. I'm discussing skiing and giving an opinion. That's what this forum is for. Kiss my ass

Because I don't like you. You do not own the thread. I do what I want. You post nonsense and present it as fact. Your opinion sucks.

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Snowlover

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Yes the ski industry did exist before mass snowmaking. There would be years that some places barely operated and ended up losing tons of money.
You talk of how to make snow like your a expert on the subject(just like helmets.....) but you fail to consider that these mtns have been making snow for a long time with lots of experimentaion.
Yea blowing snow at 1/2" intervals might make some decent snow but no work would ever get done. When there is conditions to make snow, you make it at full blast while you can.
This yearbhas been horrible for conditions. Heavy rains and warm temps followed by deep freeze.
The 3 mtns I know of with minimal snow making MRG/Magic/Hickory are either not open, or barely operating.
Give me manmade any day!

Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2
Here's an example of a smart ass attack comment. Just pointing it out. I was putting out possible ways it could improve. Not saying that it would work. You don't need to an expert on snowmaking to understand that it's nothing like the real thing and I personally hate skiing on fake snow and personally(I) will not pay to ride anymore. It has nothing to do with sharp edges. I can still edge it. I just don't enjoy it like the real thing. It's sort of like having sex with an ugly obese woman vs a thin beautiful woman. Sure their both "sex", but really no comparison. I don't care about being able to "handle any conditions". I just want to have fun, which is why I'm paying for a lift ticket. It's not a charity. lol
 

Snowlover

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Because I don't like you. You do not own the thread. I do what I want. You post nonsense and present it as fact. Your opinion sucks.

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And you think I like you? I don't talk to people I don't like. Are you like 10? poopie head....what a douche you are.

It's nonsense that fake snow sucks compared to the real thing? Oh yeah I'm really going out on a limb there.I'm the only person that's ever said that! :roll::roll:That's why people fly out to nh from the midwest to ski instead of outwest because that ice is soooo much better than feet of snow at alta.....You just got owned pal. You're a little bitch. Stop talking to me or answering my threads and get a life. You can't handle someone that has a different opinion that you and you can't handle the fact that ec skiing sucks compared to west because of your ego.(delusional loser posting on internet forums and thinks he's all that) I'm an ecoaster and I'm just honest about it.
 
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