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Ski Demos: tuning issues?

Cannonball

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Over the years I've had lots of friends demo skis, but I haven't done many myself. It seems like many times they have reported back "I didn't like them, they were 'too grabby'". I'll admit I kind of blew off those comment thinking that they just weren't used to skiing nice, new skis with a good tune on them.

Well, I take that all back. I demoed a pair of Icelantic Rangers on Saturday. Specs wise these skis should be everything I would love. But instead they scared the crap out of me. They were hooking up way too quickly and it was almost impossible to pull out of a turn. Just coming to a stop was a major effort in trying to avoid getting launched off the side of the trail. The outside edges were also hooking up in scary and dangerous ways. Honestly, they best way to describe them is that they were "too grabby". I almost feel stupid saying it, but it was crazy.

So my question is: are demo skis being sent out on the mountain with a poor tune? Specifically, should they be de-tuned to a more reasonable, skiable level? Or am I just a pus who isn't used to skiing nice, new skis with a good tune on them? (I probably already know the answer from most of you!!)
 

wa-loaf

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The reps maintain the tunes so it can be hit and miss if they do a crappy job. I've experienced the opposite where I couldn't get an edge for the life of me on a pair of demos.
 

Puck it

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I can understand that statment completely. If I have a shop tune my skis, they always come back way to sharp for me in the tips and tail. Even if I have them detuned, I will still need to take a stone or even a file to them on the tips and tails. I have also been known to use concrete tower bases or rocks to do this when I forget to bring the stone in my pocket. As Chris, he witnessed ita the top of the Cannonball chair one day.


To answer your question: With the right tune, the skis may have worked. But listening to the core description, you may have been over overpowering the ski. So it is hard to say. I had a pair of K2 Apache Recon's that were like this and got rid of them.
 

thetrailboss

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Over the years I've had lots of friends demo skis, but I haven't done many myself. It seems like many times they have reported back "I didn't like them, they were 'too grabby'". I'll admit I kind of blew off those comment thinking that they just weren't used to skiing nice, new skis with a good tune on them.

Well, I take that all back. I demoed a pair of Icelantic Rangers on Saturday. Specs wise these skis should be everything I would love. But instead they scared the crap out of me. They were hooking up way too quickly and it was almost impossible to pull out of a turn. Just coming to a stop was a major effort in trying to avoid getting launched off the side of the trail. The outside edges were also hooking up in scary and dangerous ways. Honestly, they best way to describe them is that they were "too grabby". I almost feel stupid saying it, but it was crazy.

So my question is: are demo skis being sent out on the mountain with a poor tune? Specifically, should they be de-tuned to a more reasonable, skiable level? Or am I just a pus who isn't used to skiing nice, new skis with a good tune on them? (I probably already know the answer from most of you!!)

Sounds like they did not detune them. I had an experience a few years back with TOTB when we began our day and he almost was thrown into the woods by his skis. The shop, in a hurry, did not detune the tips and tails. Sounds like the same thing here.
 

dlague

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Over the years I've had lots of friends demo skis, but I haven't done many myself. It seems like many times they have reported back "I didn't like them, they were 'too grabby'". I'll admit I kind of blew off those comment thinking that they just weren't used to skiing nice, new skis with a good tune on them.

Well, I take that all back. I demoed a pair of Icelantic Rangers on Saturday. Specs wise these skis should be everything I would love. But instead they scared the crap out of me. They were hooking up way too quickly and it was almost impossible to pull out of a turn. Just coming to a stop was a major effort in trying to avoid getting launched off the side of the trail. The outside edges were also hooking up in scary and dangerous ways. Honestly, they best way to describe them is that they were "too grabby". I almost feel stupid saying it, but it was crazy.

So my question is: are demo skis being sent out on the mountain with a poor tune? Specifically, should they be de-tuned to a more reasonable, skiable level? Or am I just a pus who isn't used to skiing nice, new skis with a good tune on them? (I probably already know the answer from most of you!!)


My take - the edges angle was to sharp? It could be they were tuned to handle some of the hard days we have had.
 

drjeff

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Personally I've found that when I get on some demo skis directly out of a manufacturers rep van during a demo day that for me at least those tend to be in better shape tune wise (usually factory specs) than if I get a pair of demo skis out of a ski shop/on mountain demo ski center where they tend to be a bit less cared for and tuned to a "one size fits all" set up.
 

Twism86

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Ski tuning is so beyond me. I assume there is one way to shapen an edge, 90 degrees? Im probably completely wrong.... So what am I getting when I drop them off for the $25 edge and wax??
 

Edd

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The reps maintain the tunes so it can be hit and miss if they do a crappy job. I've experienced the opposite where I couldn't get an edge for the life of me on a pair of demos.

I had this experience this season with Head Supershape Rallys. I was excited to ski them expecting hard snow chops but walked away quite unimpressed. Fun skis, but didn't grip at all. I was suspicious of the tune.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone
 

dlague

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Ski tuning is so beyond me. I assume there is one way to shapen an edge, 90 degrees? Im probably completely wrong.... So what am I getting when I drop them off for the $25 edge and wax??

Generally speaking the manufacture's edge angles are 1 degree from base and 1 or 2 degrees from the side otherwise known as 89 and 88 degrees respectively. Some of the racing gear is often 3 degrees from the side. Interestingly enough, Icelantic does 3 degrees from the side which would translate into the experience Cannonball was having it was gripping like a racing ski but on a wide board.
 

wa-loaf

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Generally speaking the manufacture's edge angles are 1 degree from base and 1 or 2 degrees from the side otherwise known as 89 and 88 degrees respectively. Some of the racing gear is often 3 degrees from the side. Interestingly enough, Icelantic does 3 degrees from the side which would translate into the experience Cannonball was having it was gripping like a racing ski but on a wide board.

Only really an issue if the tips and tails were not detuned. A flat base bevel will also cause you to hook-up a little more. GS skis are usually around .5 while recreational and pow skis are 1 degree.
 

JDMRoma

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So how far down from your tip and tail do you de tune ? and would you use the same distance for Rockerd skis ?
My AC 50s are cambered and the Soul 7s are Rockerd tip and tail….would I do less or more De tune on the Souls ?
or would you just detune where the tips and tails meet the snow when they are flat not on edge…….thinking !!
 

Cannonball

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Generally speaking the manufacture's edge angles are 1 degree from base and 1 or 2 degrees from the side otherwise known as 89 and 88 degrees respectively. Some of the racing gear is often 3 degrees from the side. Interestingly enough, Icelantic does 3 degrees from the side which would translate into the experience Cannonball was having it was gripping like a racing ski but on a wide board.

Good info and it explains a lot! I typical tune my skis at 1 & 1. A nice sharp 3° on a 107 waist would definitely throw me around.
 

wa-loaf

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Well, I take that all back. I demoed a pair of Icelantic Rangers on Saturday.

So my question is: are demo skis being sent out on the mountain with a poor tune? Specifically, should they be de-tuned to a more reasonable, skiable level? Or am I just a pus who isn't used to skiing nice, new skis with a good tune on them? (I probably already know the answer from most of you!!)

Good info and it explains a lot! I typical tune my skis at 1 & 1. A nice sharp 3° on a 107 waist would definitely throw me around.

I really can't see why they would put a 3° on a pair of Icelantic. I think the reall issue is lack of detuning. It fits the description of what happened better, tips being grabby and tail not wanting to let go (ie trying to launch you into woods).
 

Cannonball

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I really can't see why they would put a 3° on a pair of Icelantic. I think the reall issue is lack of detuning. It fits the description of what happened better, tips being grabby and tail not wanting to let go (ie trying to launch you into woods).

Yeah, you are probably right. And that what I was thinking.

FYI: From Icelantic's page:
"The skis come out of the factory with a 2-degree bevel on the side edge and a 1-degree bevel on the bases. We recommend keeping this for future tunes."
 

JDMRoma

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This sounds more like a deburring issue rather than detuning. You generally do NOT detune modern shaped skis.
http://www.tognar.com/deburr_tips_edge_polish_repais_ski_snowboard.html

The article does state shaped skis don't need to be detuned but in the beginning it says this….. So for shaped skis find the contact point of the tip and tail (you can do this by placing the ski on a flat surface and marking the sidewall at the points that the ski contacts the flat surface) and detune from contact point forward on the tip and contact point backward on the tail.
 

Puck it

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Yeah, you are probably right. And that what I was thinking.

FYI: From Icelantic's page:
"The skis come out of the factory with a 2-degree bevel on the side edge and a 1-degree bevel on the bases. We recommend keeping this for future tunes."


My hell and backs are 2 on the side.
 

Gilligan

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The article does state shaped skis don't need to be detuned but in the beginning it says this….. So for shaped skis find the contact point of the tip and tail (you can do this by placing the ski on a flat surface and marking the sidewall at the points that the ski contacts the flat surface) and detune from contact point forward on the tip and contact point backward on the tail.
That has always meant detuning the parts that do not touch the snow so they do not grab the other ski when accidentally crossed. I guess it could be interpreted differently for rockered skis.

Still, when complaining about a demo's tune, I think some left over edge burrs are the more likely culprit.
 

JDMRoma

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That has always meant detuning the parts that do not touch the snow so they do not grab the other ski when accidentally crossed. I guess it could be interpreted differently for rockered skis.

Still, when complaining about a demo's tune, I think some left over edge burrs are the more likely culprit.

Thank you for posting that, it answered my questions !!
 
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