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Skiing NNE Between 1/1 and 1/3 2009...

scootertig

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After last year's trip to Burlington around New Year's Eve (Bolton Valley and Stowe, and then New Year's Eve in Boston), we've decided to try again, change it up a bit. We're planning to take Amtrak to Essex Junction, and then find a good place to get back on it headed back to DC.

What we need now, is suggestions on where to ski. We've got three people skiing, and ideally, each person will get "priority" on a day (meaning if there's some place that appeals more to them than to the others, they get their way), so we're going to determine the itinerary democratically. The plan is to start in Burlington (free lodging) on the night of the 31st, then ski on Thursday the 1st, Friday the 2nd, and Saturday the 3rd, staying in hotels as needed to minimize early morning drives to the hill.

On the short list of contenders based on what I've read here and the impression I get from their websites:

Sugarbush
Smuggler's Notch
Burke
Cannon
Wildcat
Attitash

(Maybe Mad River Glen - I'm not sure if we're ready to tackle that in a way that would make it worthwhile or not)

Previous New England skiing experiences include Bolton Valley (loved it, but definitely need a little more challenge this time around), Stowe (not so keen on it - overpriced, and not a good experience due to the difficulties of trying to ski "together" on different level trails), Sugarloaf (great, but freezing), and Saddleback (cold again, but one of my favorites).

Our group is "capable intermediate" on average (meaning blues are generally a great starting point, sometimes we'll step it up to blacks, sometimes not). My girlfriend prefers wider runs where she can "do her turns," the other 2 of us are less particular about that and actually like the narrow runs). We do all like to be able to ski around various parts of the mountain, so a hill where all of the blue terrain is lumped together would be a little dull.

The ideal mountain(s) for us would have a mixture of wider cruisers and classic twisty/turny trails at the intermediate level, with an opportunity to duck in and out of black terrain if conditions and confidence are favorable. Also some real intermediate tree skiing would be fantastic, but is as much at the mercy of the conditions as anything else. As far as the vibe goes, think Saddleback or Loveland. Low-key, low-cost, low-crowd is what we're interested in.

Have I missed any mountains that would be a good fit? What about Waterville Valley? Black Mountain?

If you were trying to fill 3 days and end up near an Amtrak Station (preferably with train service on the Vermonter line, not the bus connection kind of service) where would you go? Which mountain would be best to save for Saturday to avoid crowds and liftlines?

Also, I checked the Skiing on the Cheap thread a few days ago, and didn't really see anything that applied to these areas (except that zimsport link). Are there any secrets to doing this trip more cheaply? Most of the lift tickets seem to be in the $60 neighborhood, but spending less would be nice!


aaron
 

thetrailboss

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Well, weather and snow conditions are going to dictate things, so it is hard to tell what to expect. Based on your criteria, I'd suggest starting at a lesser known place for the 1st (holiday) and then going from there.

Burke meets the criteria, but it is 2 hours from Burlington. And in lean snow years forget it. It is not crowded nor as expensive.

Sugarbush, though more expensive, is tough to beat. Throw in the Slide Brook Express (weekends and holidays) and you will not be bored.

As for the third, I'd say Smuggs or Bolton is there is lots of natural snow.

Attitash will be skied out and is not impressive. Things may have changed. Cannon is similar to Burke, but can be icy.

No experience with Wildcat.
 

deadheadskier

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Given what you've posted,

I'd go Sugarbush then Killington, then Pico and catch the amtrak from Rutland, VT back home.
 

scootertig

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I just checked out Pico, which I hadn't even considered, and was impressed. Looks like a good place for what we like. However, I then checked out Amtrak, and realized why people don't take the train. To get from Rutland to DC, I'd have to catch a train from Rutland to NYC, and then wait from 10:30 to 3 AM to catch a train to DC, getting in here at 7 AM. Yuck!

A better bet might be for us to start in Burlington, ski somewhere "local" on Thursday, and then head towards Boston for Saturday (and catch the train from there). If we want to make it a generally southeasterly direction for 3 days, that should take us through New Hampshire, right? Does that take us more towards Burke and the Northern NH areas?

Why don't I hear more about Pico? I hear lots of K'ton and Okemo bashing, but it seems Pico gets left out of those conversations...

aaron
 

riverc0il

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No need to leave VT and travel to NH. If you are basing out of Burlington, I would suggest staying in VT. Burke is the best match for your criteria, but as TB mentions, it is almost a two hour driver from Burlington. Plus, you can not really pair it up with any other mountains as it sits by itself (Cannon is the next closest mountain at an hour away and in the wrong direction from your home base). Mount Ellen at Sugarbush also meets your criteria but you pay more than Burke. Pico would be a good option as well. Not sure how Smuggs would be for your criteria but it is a very family friendly mountain so I have to assume they have some good cruising terrain and definitely lots of character from what I have heard.

You don't hear as much about Pico because Pico and Killington have been owned by the same company but Pico gets neglected. I assume they have less lodging, slopeside, etc. Certainly quality terrain, charm, character trails, decent challenge, etc. A central base area is better for the family than Killington as well.

Starting in Burlington and driving to Boston WILL take you through NH, but you will miss the better ski areas as I-89 in NH starts at mid-state and angles south east away from the good skiing. Mount Sunapee is right off the highway as is Pat's Peak. Ascutney in VT is also right off the highway near the boarder. But if you are traveling all that distance, you might as well hit the bigger names.

Here is my suggestion based on starting in Burlington and traveling towards Boston:

Friday: Smuggs (Friday night in Burlington)
Saturday: Mount Ellen at Bush (Saturday night travel down Route 100 after skiing and stay somewhere along Route 4 between Rutland through White River Junction)
Sunday: Pico

Three hours to Boston from the Killington/Pico area
 

hardline

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I just checked out Pico, which I hadn't even considered, and was impressed. Looks like a good place for what we like. However, I then checked out Amtrak, and realized why people don't take the train. To get from Rutland to DC, I'd have to catch a train from Rutland to NYC, and then wait from 10:30 to 3 AM to catch a train to DC, getting in here at 7 AM. Yuck!

A better bet might be for us to start in Burlington, ski somewhere "local" on Thursday, and then head towards Boston for Saturday (and catch the train from there). If we want to make it a generally southeasterly direction for 3 days, that should take us through New Hampshire, right? Does that take us more towards Burke and the Northern NH areas?

Why don't I hear more about Pico? I hear lots of K'ton and Okemo bashing, but it seems Pico gets left out of those conversations...

aaron

killington used to just be plain crazy on the weekends but after last year its calmed down since there are no cheep passes. pico wont get bashed because its already treated like the iligitmate child. okemo has an agressive grooming policy most of the time so for people like myself it isn't really the first choice. plus if im going to drive to killington i would rather suck it up and drive the rest of the way to stowe but i am really biased to stowe.
 

deadheadskier

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On a side note, for some really good music Check out Grace Potter and the Nocturnals, They are performing at the Higher Ground in Burlington on the 31st.

and it's not sold out yet?

I love Gracy......in many ways :grin:

GracePotter-JoesPub5-24-07033.jpg
 
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After last year's trip to Burlington around New Year's Eve (Bolton Valley and Stowe, and then New Year's Eve in Boston), we've decided to try again, change it up a bit. We're planning to take Amtrak to Essex Junction, and then find a good place to get back on it headed back to DC.

What we need now, is suggestions on where to ski. We've got three people skiing, and ideally, each person will get "priority" on a day (meaning if there's some place that appeals more to them than to the others, they get their way), so we're going to determine the itinerary democratically. The plan is to start in Burlington (free lodging) on the night of the 31st, then ski on Thursday the 1st, Friday the 2nd, and Saturday the 3rd, staying in hotels as needed to minimize early morning drives to the hill.

On the short list of contenders based on what I've read here and the impression I get from their websites:

Sugarbush
Smuggler's Notch
Burke
Cannon
Wildcat
Attitash

(Maybe Mad River Glen - I'm not sure if we're ready to tackle that in a way that would make it worthwhile or not)

Previous New England skiing experiences include Bolton Valley (loved it, but definitely need a little more challenge this time around), Stowe (not so keen on it - overpriced, and not a good experience due to the difficulties of trying to ski "together" on different level trails), Sugarloaf (great, but freezing), and Saddleback (cold again, but one of my favorites).

Our group is "capable intermediate" on average (meaning blues are generally a great starting point, sometimes we'll step it up to blacks, sometimes not). My girlfriend prefers wider runs where she can "do her turns," the other 2 of us are less particular about that and actually like the narrow runs). We do all like to be able to ski around various parts of the mountain, so a hill where all of the blue terrain is lumped together would be a little dull.

The ideal mountain(s) for us would have a mixture of wider cruisers and classic twisty/turny trails at the intermediate level, with an opportunity to duck in and out of black terrain if conditions and confidence are favorable. Also some real intermediate tree skiing would be fantastic, but is as much at the mercy of the conditions as anything else. As far as the vibe goes, think Saddleback or Loveland. Low-key, low-cost, low-crowd is what we're interested in.

Have I missed any mountains that would be a good fit? What about Waterville Valley? Black Mountain?

If you were trying to fill 3 days and end up near an Amtrak Station (preferably with train service on the Vermonter line, not the bus connection kind of service) where would you go? Which mountain would be best to save for Saturday to avoid crowds and liftlines?

Also, I checked the Skiing on the Cheap thread a few days ago, and didn't really see anything that applied to these areas (except that zimsport link). Are there any secrets to doing this trip more cheaply? Most of the lift tickets seem to be in the $60 neighborhood, but spending less would be nice!


aaron

Since you live in Virginia I'd stick with Vermont..New Hampshire is farther and you want to ski more than travel..If I were you after my free night in Burlington..I'd hit Sugarbush and then stay in Waterbury or Stowe..prices might be a bit high because you're on the late end of alot of peoples winter breaks..but alot of people head home after New Years day. For all the travel..you'll want to maximize your onslope time so I would skip Smugglers notch due to their very slow lifts..and Smuggs would be a really busy spot with all the kids still off school..Bolton Valley has a high speed lift and is often an overlooked spot..and it's inexpensive and homey..so you might want to check Bolton Valley out due to the proximity of Burlington...plus they offer night skiing so you can stick around and have some pizza and everning turns. The money you save on the lift ticket..you can spend on some cabot steeze..I mean cheese..

I kind of feel like the train will take a really long time..from VA..is the Amtrak more for the scenic experience? I imagine it takes about 10 hours+ hours..
 

MrMagic

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..Bolton Valley has a high speed lift and is often an overlooked spot..and it's inexpensive and homey..so you might want to check Bolton Valley out due to the proximity of Burlington...plus they offer night skiing so you can stick around and have some pizza and everning turns. ..

no high speed at bolton valley, but it is true that it is an over looked mtn, high base elv. which means more snow, cant go wrong with pico either
 

Geoff

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How close are you to BWI? Southwest goes to Manchester NH, Hartford CT, and Albany NY.

JetBlue goes from JFK to Burlington, VT. From Dulles, you'd have to connect at Kennedy which isn't optimal.
 

riverc0il

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Good recommendation on Manchester, NH. Great airport and nice central location. Not as close to VT skiing as Burlington so you drive slightly further. But very convenient airport.
 

scootertig

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I kind of feel like the train will take a really long time..from VA..is the Amtrak more for the scenic experience? I imagine it takes about 10 hours+ hours..

Yeah, it's listed as about a 12 hour ride, leaving at 8 AM, getting in around 8:30 that night.

How close are you to BWI? Southwest goes to Manchester NH, Hartford CT, and Albany NY.

JetBlue goes from JFK to Burlington, VT. From Dulles, you'd have to connect at Kennedy which isn't optimal.

Every time I have a friend come down from New England via JFK (JetBlue), they get screwed up. I might chance it, but only if the airfare was low.

As GSS pointed out, it is a long train ride, but I'm thinking (perhaps foolishly) that the train would be less affected by any bad weather than flying would be.

The thing is, the train fare is about $130/person round-trip, whereas the airfare is $215 pp/rt in the best case, before adding on for skis, etc. It would literally cost twice as much to fly, and I have to deal with the drive to BWI (a bit over an hour from where I live). I've got free parking at my office which is right on the Metro line, so we can get to Union Station without a car, which is nice. And, I'd be lying if I said I'm not a bit intrigued by the idea of "taking the train into Vermone to go skiing". I don't even know if the route is all that pretty (I'm pretty sure it won't be until we pass Hartford, anyway), but there's a bit of charm to the notion...

I'd almost rather drive it (cost per person would be half of the cost of the train), but that's too fraught with potential disaster, if the weather's "bad' (or good for skiing). After driving back and forth to Orono for years, I learned my lesson about planning long car trips around once snow season starts.

I appreciate the advice on ski hills, though. Out of the options near to Burlington, aside from Bolton Valley (we skied there last year, and would prefer not to repeat yet), which is the best bet for the Saturday? Is New Year's day a big skiing day? I would have figured that hangovers and sleep deprivation would thin the herd a bit...

Also - if we do decide to make the drive to Burke, does it warrant more than one day's visit? Is it less likely to be gross on a Saturday? We could make the drive to Montpelier from Burke on Saturday night and catch the train there on Sunday (since our friend will be grabbing Rt 2 back into Maine anyway, and will have to drive past/through there either way).


Thanks!


aaron
 

deadheadskier

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I would say Sugarbush North would have the least crowds on Saturday. Smuggs has limited uphill capacity and can have long lines, Stowe has better capacity, but you'll still see 20-30 lines on Saturday.

To be honest, the more I think about it, the more I think you should just do Sugarbush for all three days. It's a pretty huge place, you'd be hard pressed to ski it all in three days and you'd probably save a buck on hotels and lodging in doing such.
 

thetrailboss

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I appreciate the advice on ski hills, though. Out of the options near to Burlington, aside from Bolton Valley (we skied there last year, and would prefer not to repeat yet), which is the best bet for the Saturday? Is New Year's day a big skiing day? I would have figured that hangovers and sleep deprivation would thin the herd a bit...

I'd say that NY Day will be more like a Sunday...some crowds, but not too bad.

Also - if we do decide to make the drive to Burke, does it warrant more than one day's visit? Is it less likely to be gross on a Saturday? We could make the drive to Montpelier from Burke on Saturday night and catch the train there on Sunday (since our friend will be grabbing Rt 2 back into Maine anyway, and will have to drive past/through there either way).

Again, depends on conditions. If you like trees and there is snow, you could ski there for three days and still not hit every stash. But if the weather sucks and they are only doing snowmaking runs, you'd be hardpressed to be entertained for more than a day or so. Their snowmaking usually covers the entire bottom section off the HSQ, 2/3 of the Dipper Run, 1/2 of Warren's, and Meadows/Willoughby/Lower Bear Den for Christmas Week. They resurface and expand terrain for the MLK Weekend and President's Week. Early season, again, is hit or miss. FWIW they were 100% open and amazing for pretty much all last December...it was unreal. But again, in 2006 it was barely open with maybe 7 trails and pretty depressing.

If I had a crystal ball, I would not be working right now...there is just no way to know. What is certain is that it is a gamble...more so than other larger areas.
 

hardline

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Yeah, it's listed as about a 12 hour ride, leaving at 8 AM, getting in around 8:30 that night.



Every time I have a friend come down from New England via JFK (JetBlue), they get screwed up. I might chance it, but only if the airfare was low.

As GSS pointed out, it is a long train ride, but I'm thinking (perhaps foolishly) that the train would be less affected by any bad weather than flying would be.

The thing is, the train fare is about $130/person round-trip, whereas the airfare is $215 pp/rt in the best case, before adding on for skis, etc. It would literally cost twice as much to fly, and I have to deal with the drive to BWI (a bit over an hour from where I live). I've got free parking at my office which is right on the Metro line, so we can get to Union Station without a car, which is nice. And, I'd be lying if I said I'm not a bit intrigued by the idea of "taking the train into Vermone to go skiing". I don't even know if the route is all that pretty (I'm pretty sure it won't be until we pass Hartford, anyway), but there's a bit of charm to the notion...

I'd almost rather drive it (cost per person would be half of the cost of the train), but that's too fraught with potential disaster, if the weather's "bad' (or good for skiing). After driving back and forth to Orono for years, I learned my lesson about planning long car trips around once snow season starts.

I appreciate the advice on ski hills, though. Out of the options near to Burlington, aside from Bolton Valley (we skied there last year, and would prefer not to repeat yet), which is the best bet for the Saturday? Is New Year's day a big skiing day? I would have figured that hangovers and sleep deprivation would thin the herd a bit...

Also - if we do decide to make the drive to Burke, does it warrant more than one day's visit? Is it less likely to be gross on a Saturday? We could make the drive to Montpelier from Burke on Saturday night and catch the train there on Sunday (since our friend will be grabbing Rt 2 back into Maine anyway, and will have to drive past/through there either way).


Thanks!


aaron

how do you plan on getting from burlington to the areas and from one area to the next?
 
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