Squaw Mtn. Maine looks Like a TO AVOID for 2006

[LVNLARG]

In my search for 12 night skiing areas in Maine to satisfy TB's curiosity I cam across a note that Big Squaw's double is "closed until further notice"...meaning it's most likely been condemned. Mechanically...that thing was scary 15 years ago....so I'm not surprised. What were/are they thinking? Why even bother opening without that lift? It serves the main moutain and they're left operating this year with something similar to K-mart's Snowshead. Sad

 

[thetrailboss]

I had heard that they were having trouble with that lift...sorry to hear that...it's too bad and I'm sure that the ski area does not need this to happen to them.

 

[LVNLARG]

Yup..it is disappointing. They're a bit off the beaten path, I doubt revenues are the greatest at the best of times and this is going to chop visits by half atleast. I really hope they can get the money together to maybe install a new fixed grip double or quad to the peak and come back strong. They should have done something cool like leased a snowcat for this season and used the upper mountain for expert back country style skiing. I hate telling people to avoid the place...but they are not listing on their website clearly that the lift is shut down and I for one would be very angry to arrive and discover that to be the case. :angry:

 

[LVNLARG]

They had an accident on that lift a couple years ago, and it's been closed ever since. Too bad, when we last visited, we had a blast there. Non existant lines, corduroy til afternoon, real snow, no ice, plenty cold up there to keep it snow.

Wow...it's been closed more than a year ?!? What are they thinking ?!!? They actually have a nice 15 year old Doppelmeyer on the lower moutain. I would love to see them install something similar on the upper mountain. What happened ...do you know??

 

[RuffusCorncobb]

Lower lift offers some decent beginer & intermediate terain.

I skiied there last March for an afternoon and found that the Lower lift offers some decent beginer & intermediate terain. The lift tickets were cheep like $20 for all day. It would be nice to have the upper lift running but if you are skiing with a family looking primarily beginner and intermeediate terrain only, this would be a nice mountain to visit.

 

[LVNLARG]

Re: Lower lift offers some decent beginer & intermediate terain.

I skiied there last March for an afternoon and found that the Lower lift offers some decent beginer & intermediate terain. The lift tickets were cheep like $20 for all day. It would be nice to have the upper lift running but if you are skiing with a family looking primarily beginner and intermeediate terrain only, this would be a nice mountain to visit.

I agree completely...this is 100% true. The reason I issued the "warning" in this forum is because for most part everyone here is an "advanced" skier and the terrain they have open would be less than satisfying. I would love to see them get a new lift to get their advanced terrain back in action as it makes an excellent family hill for every kind of family then. I think what's best for the mountain honestly is if the owners would just put it on the market. It needs about 5 million in investment to get it up to snuff (A new fixed grip double or better...a lodge/hotel upgrade and expansion...a couple new groomers and a snowmaking system that works. It's a gem that's not reaching anywhere near it's full and easily attainable potential due to being in the wrong hands.

 

[LVNLARG]

I think what's best for the mountain honestly is if the owners would just put it on the market. It needs about 5 million in investment to get it up to snuff (A new fixed grip double or better...a lodge/hotel upgrade and expansion...a couple new groomers and a snowmaking system that works. It's a gem that's not reaching anywhere near it's full and easily attainable potential due to being in the wrong hands.

Here is everyones chance to own a mountain and show how it is done, should it be placed on the market. It's a tough situation. Anyone who could afford to buy, didn't earn the money in skiing, which means little familiarity with the ski industry, which leads to more failure.... Vicious cycle. Seems to be stuck in that cycle now. And add to the local population being as low as it is and there just isn't enough skiing going on in that area to pay for the improvements and repairs, mucc less the mortgage.

It's a definate potential family destination area (That's how I discovered it....we actually came down twice on March Break). They used to come to the ski show here in Halifax to market it to Canadians 20 years ago. It's also a daytripper for Bangor as long as tickets stay reasonable. It should probbly never really build out more than 4 lifts and has some serious 4 season potential with the lake there. I've never been to Smuggler's...but I understand what it's about and Squaw was similar in it's hayday and could get back to a Smuggler's stature. I think it needs way more beds to really make it work. Someone with 10 mil (a couple to buy it...5 for beds and ski upgrades and the rest to get you going and create some off season ammenities) and half an idea could make out alright. Never know...if it sits broken for 5 more seasons it might be me..lol :beer:

 

[LVNLARG]

Never know...if it sits broken for 5 more seasons it might be me..lol

If that happens, I'll be up to visit!

1 skier visit down ...149,999 more to find. :lol: (Do you think you could find 5 friends and come 4 times a year?) :beer:

 

[loafer89]

I skied at Big Squaw once in March of 1999 and while the snow was awfull (frozen granular) the trails from the summit were nice classic New England style
trails that were narrow and twisting.

Greenville is not exactly close to anywhere, and makes Sugarloaf look suburban in its location.

What about the Plum Creek development plan? would this have any wintertime effect on the ski area if built? or are these homebuyers more likely to just be up in the summertime?

I would be a shame to watch Big Squaw go the way of Enchanted Forest ski area.

 

[Skifastsailfast]

Squaw's nickname: Big Potential Mountain

LVNLARG et al... I've been a Squaw skier for nearly 20 years, married to a guy that has skied the place since the mid 1960s. We know a few things about Squaw.

I made some comments months ago in response to a thread started by skimmaine4ever:

http://forums.alpinezone.com/post-26960.html&highlight=#26960

LVNLARG, my hubby and I found it quite fitting that the word "potential" came up several times in your posts. Squaw skiers have been calling the place "Big Potential Mountain" since the late 1970s. It's a diamond in the rough, no question. An influx of cash spent wisely could indeed turn the place around.

The summit lift was condemned a few months after the Spring 2004 accident. The mountain operated the lower area in 2004-5. There was also one season in the early 1990s when just the lower area ran - that was when a group of half a dozen or so locals owned it, before Jim Confalone bought it.

Here's the really depressing part:

Reliable sources indicate the current owner, Mr. Confalone, has had a few decent offers from potential buyers, but has not considered any of them. He is a non-skier, actually operated a chain of car washes in Florida for a number of years. Last January, he got the Bangor Daily News to publish an article in which he promised massive improvements to the mountain. I didn't believe it then, and e-mailed the reporter suggesting she watch the situation and consider a follow-up. Haven't seen anything in the papers since.

As to Squaw's location, it's only about half an hour further from our house than Sugarloaf, so it's not as far out of the way as some have suggested. The Libra Foundation turned Mars Hill into a viable ski area, and that's way further from civilization than Squaw. But Confalone won't give the place up (despite offers considerably higher than what he paid for it).

You can't help but wonder what his intentions are.

I'd love to see the place come back, but don't expect anything positive to happen while it's in the hands of the current owner. I've often wondered out loud whether a co-op, similar to MRG, would work. But the biggest obstacle is to break Mr. Confalone's death grip on the place.

I've rambled long enough, and have been way more civil about the Squaw sitch than it deserves.

Thank heavens for the AllForOne ASC passes.

 

[loafer89]

The Libra Foundation did great things for Black Mountain, While I never visited the place before last years expansion, the new facilities were really nice.

 

[Skifastsailfast]

Big Squaw

Yup, Libra did great things at Pineland, Mars Hill, and Black Mountain. They reportedly made a nice offer on Big Squaw but the owner said no.

I'd be surprised is Big Squaw ran at all this winter. And if it does, how much fabrication about vertical feet will there be?

I'd go back in a heartbeat if that place ever gets its act together. We can only hope.

 

[LVNLARG]

Re: Big Squaw

Yup, Libra did great things at Pineland, Mars Hill, and Black Mountain. They reportedly made a nice offer on Big Squaw but the owner said no.

I'd be surprised is Big Squaw ran at all this winter. And if it does, how much fabrication about vertical feet will there be?

I'd go back in a heartbeat if that place ever gets its act together. We can only hope.

Thanks for the info SSfast! My post was kinda 2 fold. It was A. To warn those who made rumblings about checking out the place this season in other threads and B. In hopes of drawing someone in-the-know like yourself out to let us know what's really going on.

They're actually not cheating on the vert on the website...they're quoting 750 and tht's what they most likely have. With the summit lift running I believe they have 1750 ? Since how the summit lift doesn't run to the summit...a new owner installing a new summit lift might possibly be able to squeeze another 250 out of it to get to the all important 2000 vert mark. I seem to think there might have been some issue about protected hiking trails on top though...or maybe that was Saddleback ? The website also quotes trail designer Sel Hanna as saying the Penobscot is the most scenic in the US. OK...let's see....their only form of marketing...is to market themselves around a trail no one can get to. Hmmmm. Receipe for failure ? Check! :lol: :dunce: :blink:

From what I've read the new owner has bought up tracts of land in addition to the mountain on the lakefront and people arn't quite sure what he's up to but there's concern??? Is there considerable more land with the Squaw Mountain property that would allow for some expansion outward? What did the current owner buy it for and what is he turning down? Based on it's current condition and sale prices of other mountains I'd say it's barely worth 1 mil from a tangible assets business standpoint. We actually have a mountain here in Nova Scotia in the Cape Breton Highlands that has a fairly new Poma Quad and similar amazing views of the ocean no less.. that the gov sold to the only people who would buy it...a group of locals....for $1. (of course it was stipulated in the contract of sale that the mountain was to be run and nothing was to be removed). That one is similar to Squaw in remoteness and even harder to get to in winter. Glad you chimed in! :beer:

 

[Skifastsailfast]

Yeah, LL, you're right about the surrounding tracts of land. I tried to get to their web site earlier and it wouldn't come up; I thought they'd taken it down, but it's back now.

I think the current owner paid something in the neighborhood of $650 grand for it, but that could be off. To his credit(?) he did make some improvements to the hotel - renovating the lobby and fixing up the rooms - but that three story addition he put on the end of it and never finished is an eyesore. And nothing was done with the swimming pool.

The ski patrol got a grant from the Stephen and Tabitha King Foundation for a new ski patrol hut. The materials were hauled to the top of the mountain and there they sit, rotting into the ground, most likely. They BURNED the existing hut the last day I skied there spring of 2004 - on a foggy Saturday in March. So depressing that I left a day early. The lift accident happened the following day.

It really is heartbreaking, especially for the locals and people who have ski camps up there. The owner plays his cards closely to the chest and no one really knows what his intentions are. It's a bummer of epic proportions, for sure.

So where do you Novys go for your ski holidays now? I've surveyed some of you at the Loaf.

 

[LVNLARG]

Yeah, LL, you're right about the surrounding tracts of land. I tried to get to their web site earlier and it wouldn't come up; I thought they'd taken it down, but it's back now.

I think the current owner paid something in the neighborhood of $650 grand for it, but that could be off. To his credit(?) he did make some improvements to the hotel - renovating the lobby and fixing up the rooms - but that three story addition he put on the end of it and never finished is an eyesore. And nothing was done with the swimming pool.

The ski patrol got a grant from the Stephen and Tabitha King Foundation for a new ski patrol hut. The materials were hauled to the top of the mountain and there they sit, rotting into the ground, most likely. They BURNED the existing hut the last day I skied there spring of 2004 - on a foggy Saturday in March. So depressing that I left a day early. The lift accident happened the following day.

It really is heartbreaking, especially for the locals and people who have ski camps up there. The owner plays his cards closely to the chest and no one really knows what his intentions are. It's a bummer of epic proportions, for sure.

So where do you Novys go for your ski holidays now? I've surveyed some of you at the Loaf.

$650 sounds about right. It would be worth buying at that which is why he likely bought it. I imagine he's had offers of a mil? Sounds like a classic miss-managed mess (sparks visions of the old Disney movie Snowball Express). How old is this guy? He'll eventually have to sell to get money to live on if he can't even finish a small building project. I think my 5 year timetable is about right. By then he'll want to go back to Florida...will have run the place into the ground and pissed off all the potential buyers. I'll come in and buy for 500k cash out of my pocket and siphon 1 mil a year out of my actual money making business (You have to have a real business to be able to afford to run a ski resort) and make it into a nice little resort which breaks even...lol :lol:

SR and the Loaf market hard to the Novy March break crowd (like Squaw used to in the 80's). I make it to the loaf at least once every 2 years... SR a little less often. Our other alternative is Mont Ste. Anne. Their packages normally run about the same as the Rivers and are the same distance travel wise. I'm getting a bit turned off the Maine resorts simply due to the hassle I always seem to endure at the border. The last 3 of 4 times I've gone down I've been asked into the office to answer all kinds of stupid questions while they put the drug dog (that just had it's morning run in a swamp) thru the leather and new luggage filled interior of my SUV. :angry: $349 CAD sounds better than $299 US, a $99 interior cleaning and anal probe to me I'm afraid. What's more...it's not like any of these times they've found me guilty of anything...or like I've been found guilty of anything anywhere ever....or even the fact that I received RCMP training and have a tact # on my cpic (In Canada that's good for an officer apologizing to you for pulling you over for doing 20 over the limit instead of issuing a ticket). My traveling companion (when not alone) was a similarly upstanding citizen and army reserve. I hope the Governor of Maine is reading this and can comprehend that it doesn't matter how much is spent on marketing...a border hassle will keep us all away. I personally (since the price of gas and my personal time have gone up) now find it cheaper per sea (It's not $ wise but quality and time value wise it is) to fly out west (for free on airmiles) and ski in the Banff area with friends out there. I can actually get to those slopes a couple hours faster than I can to Sunday River from my driveway....and get to sleep on the way home