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Strict Ski Patrol at Jay Peak

kbroderick

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But they could just go home at that point..and still keep their pass.
I've heard vehicle descriptions and plate numbers called in for the purpose of issuing a no trespass order. Yeah, disappearing into a condo probably skirts that issue, but you probably shouldn't reappear with any of the same equipment any time soon.

Honestly, as much as handing over your pass may suck, attempting to disappear takes the stakes up several notches. Speaking as someone who spent time patrolling and who also worked night manager on duty shifts (i.e. got to ask the condo throwing a party to respect the neighbors and quiet down), I very rarely went into a situation intending to bring up the subject of no-trespass orders or extended ski access bans. However, a belligerent guest could get me to that point fairly quickly, and I don't think I'm alone in that attitude.

I also knew that some of my colleagues on patrol had substantially different attitudes about some behavior and were more likely to escalate penalties without so much provocation. I'm sure that's generally true--patrol directors are going to know which patrollers are more likely to get excited about rules rather than just about actual safety risks. If you do your best to make nice after such a run in, you stand a much better chance of skiing there again than you do trying to disappear.
 

AdironRider

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Good luck telling someone "hey, your ski coat looks just like someone I tried to power trip on last weekend and you can't ski here today". Let me know how that goes because no business is that stupid as that is a customer service nightmare.
 

dblskifanatic

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I don't mind when in passing on a run but in a lift line - there is not escape. Funny thing - if it is a song I like then it seems fine but that is not always the case. Almost like a look at me, this is the cool music I listen to!

Where it is really bad is when you are hiking. I am not out there for the music!
 

Hawk

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I had this same conversation with a friend that patrols at Sugarbush. We were discussing how they actually deal with people that go off the rails. He does not get upset at much but he said this year he had a guy threaten him over a basic disagreement. I guess the guy was out of control and nearly took out some kids. When the patroller ski up to him to tell him to slow down, things escalated and he went off and threatened him. He stood there and took it. Let the guy ski off and followed him down. Of course the guy got in line. He waited till the guy went thought the RFID and then talk to the liftie and got his information. His pass was shut off and he had to do the walk of shame down to the pass office to find out what was wrong. When he got there it was a different story. With the system they have, they know who you are where you live, how many runs you took, everything. They don't have to engage with the idiot so things are a lot safer.
 

thetrailboss

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I had this same conversation with a friend that patrols at Sugarbush. We were discussing how they actually deal with people that go off the rails. He does not get upset at much but he said this year he had a guy threaten him over a basic disagreement. I guess the guy was out of control and nearly took out some kids. When the patroller ski up to him to tell him to slow down, things escalated and he went off and threatened him. He stood there and took it. Let the guy ski off and followed him down. Of course the guy got in line. He waited till the guy went thought the RFID and then talk to the liftie and got his information. His pass was shut off and he had to do the walk of shame down to the pass office to find out what was wrong. When he got there it was a different story. With the system they have, they know who you are where you live, how many runs you took, everything. They don't have to engage with the idiot so things are a lot safer.
Exactly. With RFID they can easily figure out who was the offender.
 

Hawk

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Another thing that Sugarbush's RFID can do is scan for people that share passes. At least this is what I was told by one person. Have you ever seen that camera attached to the RFID Gate infrastructure above? It takes pictures of you when you pass through and attaches them to your pass ID number. I was told that at the end of the day they have software that scans the days photos and runs analysis. if your coat or overall appearance changes too much it flags you and they Check it out. If things don't jibe they shut you off. Now I can't confirm this is going on currently but if it does thats pretty cool.
 

machski

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We ask to see their pass. To get the name, & # so it can be deactivated.
If they don't want show it, Radio for back up, and follow them down to the lift.
They won't be getting on the lift......

Never, touch the guest, be professional
In this day of RFID, not sure one even needs to see the pass anymore to deactivate it. A quick photo of the guest probably would be enough to find and deactivate it or a hand scanner maybe as well. They were using those for the passholder grab and go lunch this weekend at SR, it picked up the pass easier than the gates seem to.
 

2Planker

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In this day of RFID, not sure one even needs to see the pass anymore to deactivate it. A quick photo of the guest probably would be enough to find and deactivate it or a hand scanner maybe as well. They were using those for the passholder grab and go lunch this weekend at SR, it picked up the pass easier than the gates seem to.
Photo ?? WTF You want me to pull out my phone and ask the perp to pose for a picture ???? Ridiculous !
Your Pass OR my Radio is all I need
 

thetrailboss

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Another thing that Sugarbush's RFID can do is scan for people that share passes. At least this is what I was told by one person. Have you ever seen that camera attached to the RFID Gate infrastructure above? It takes pictures of you when you pass through and attaches them to your pass ID number. I was told that at the end of the day they have software that scans the days photos and runs analysis. if your coat or overall appearance changes too much it flags you and they Check it out. If things don't jibe they shut you off. Now I can't confirm this is going on currently but if it does thats pretty cool.
Yeah, they have that at Deer Valley with signs explaining how it is "Identification Verification" and to prevent misuse. Seems like overkill to me. It's the complete opposite of how DV used to handle pass verification (personally checking tickets, using it as an opportunity to interact with customers). I think it feels unwelcoming even though I am not doing anything wrong. But Alterra needs to protect its $$$$ I guess.

And is pass fraud a serious issue? Can anyone in the biz say one way or the other?
 

jaytrem

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And is pass fraud a serious issue? Can anyone in the biz say one way or the other?

Yes, I know a LOT of people that have "borrowed" passes over the years. I tend to give people a hard time about that. Will says things like "Why are you teaching your daughter that it's okay to steal?". Or ask them if they go into 7 Eleven and just walk out with whatever they want without paying? Yeah, I know, I'm no fun. :)
 

AdironRider

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Obviously you would be done skiing for the day if a patroller tried to pull your pass and you deny him. But you live to ski another day.
 

kbroderick

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Good luck telling someone "hey, your ski coat looks just like someone I tried to power trip on last weekend and you can't ski here today". Let me know how that goes because no business is that stupid as that is a customer service nightmare.
As a teenager, I got pulled off the hill and into the event & comps manager's office because someone else was skiing too fast, based on the description of "a black helmet and a blue jacket." I don't expect that's typical, but depending on the size of the mountain and how much the patroller saw (helmet brand and color, jacket color, and brand/color of boots and skis is a lot more specific than just helmet and jacket color).

I wonder if cloned RFID passes are or will become an issue for resorts.
I'm assuming that there are encryption keys involved; if the data is encrypted with a modern algorithm and the keys kept secure, that should be a non-issue. Beyond that, if they're running AI against the gate photos, they should catch duplicated passes.

Re: pass fraud in general: yes, it's a real issue, even among groups that should know better (e.g. mountain employees)—the mountains that do a better job with access control will also be diligent about checking passes for uniformed employees. There are a lot of tricks to get by without getting checked, which I'll admit to having used to avoid needing to get a forgotten-pass day ticket, but I'm sure there are people out there using the same tricks (as well as plenty I've not thought of) to scam skiing, as well as people who choose to ski places and at times where they know the ticket-checking is lackadaisical at best.
 

KustyTheKlown

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my buddy bought his ikon pass ~3 seasons ago, and then found out his wife was pregnant like 2 weeks later. he tried to, i suppose, 'return' the pass, or maybe he had pass insurance that they didn't honor (i don't recall the specifics). but his pass was a total slut that season. it was shipped around the country to multiple people, used all over the damn place. no consequences. but i've definitely noticed that the pass photos popping up on lifties tablets since then, and there seems to be an active effort to catch people. would not be surpirsed if the lifties are paid a nice bonus bounty to get them to actually care.

the real simple scam at lots of places is to just skin to the upper mountain lifts. actually surprised that resorts with uphill access (basically all of them now) havent put rfid gates at upper mountain chairs. specifically thinking stratton, since everyone uphills to the same one peak, and neither ursa nor snowbowl have gates. stratton actually has no gates at all - lower mountain chairs have people with scanning guns, and a mounted scanning gun in a cabinet type thing. my ikon pass did not register one day this season at stratton because i missed the scan and then only skied upper mountain. i presume the skinner effect is a major reason for rfid gates at heavens gate and castlerock
 
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