The Summer 2012 Improvement Thread

[thetrailboss]

It's been pretty quiet in here so far this summer, but the resorts are busy doing routine maintenance and making improvements. There have been some big developments announced. What are you watching? What do you think is key? What is your home mountain doing?

Some key things to watch IMHO:

• Burke/Jay: last summer there was the top-secret HSQ project. This year, even before summer began, Bill Stenger and his partner announced that they bought Burke Mountain and would operate it beside Jay Peak. This is a huge development because JPR has been getting a lot of attention with its development work and it puts them into a multi-ski area management company ala Triple Peaks or even, gasp, ASC. What will they do with Burke this summer? In the longer term? Will they break the "curse" that Burke has had for many years and make it a sustainable business? I think that you can't argue that in this market Stenger is the best shot that Burke has. He has been a long-time manager at Jay and made it very successful despite often bad weather and the fact that Jay is very isolated. And will Jay continue the big expansion work or will it slow? West Bowl...ever?
• Crotched: Last year we were talking about Peak Resort's IPO. Before that we were commenting about them buying Wildcat and what that meant. Well, Wildcat hasn't really changed and Peak Resorts has slowed down with its improvements. Attitash is not a popular place for AZ skiers. But Crotched is moving out of the Pats Peak/Nashoba Valley league of resort and into something a bit bigger with its new (well, new to them) HSQ that is going in as we speak. Crotched was in the running last year for the lift, but Burke got first dibs and then when the lift was embroiled in more legal wrangling, Burke backed out and got a brand new Poma lift (good move IMHO). So will this mean more business for Crotched and Peak Resorts allowing them to have some more money in the coffers for Wildcat?
• Ascutney: It has been dead, regrettably, now for almost three seasons. This will be the third season that the resort will not see TLC to get ready for ski season and, instead, will be losing its HSQ. It is still a viable resort for the right owner or lessor but if it sits idle another season the chances of it reopening get slimmer because the cost of rehabbing the lifts and snowmaking will go up even more. Will we see someone step in this summer or is it gone for good?
• Tenney: Same as Ascutney. Gone for almost three seasons. The last owner was rumored to have plans and was supposedly going to dismantle the double and install a HSQ...that was until they either ran out of money, energy, or time. There was a tax sale but like Ascutney the trails are beginning to grow in. Is it gone?
• Magic: A survivor with a shot in the arm thanks to its new cooperative ownership. The goal has been met and they have some money. Work has been going on with its snowmaking and lifts but the management knows that they need to expand their customer base and get more skier/rider days in order to sustain itself as a business. Their "indy ski area" strategy seems to be working.
• Waterville: Another resort that does not get lots of attention from AZer's, but the Sununu's have big plans. We will see what happens this summer. Expansion of terrain is coming supposedly.
• Boyne: Big improvements at Sunday River and Sugarloaf, but no huge plans this summer. Will they lay low this summer?
• Cannon: The controversial Mittersill did not see many skiers last season and this is one reason why snowmaking may be coming to it. The other is Cannon's desire to once again become a big ski-racing venue, pressured by one of its constituents, Franconia Ski Club and its influential alum. As Burke can attest, being a ski-racing venue can help you survive, but you won't thrive. Will Cannon take another step toward snowmaking, night skiing, and racing at Mittersill?

So what others are there?

 

[Masskier]

It's been pretty quiet in here so far this summer, but the resorts are busy doing routine maintenance and making improvements. There have been some big developments announced. What are you watching? What do you think is key? What is your home mountain doing?

Some key things to watch IMHO:

• Burke/Jay: last summer there was the top-secret HSQ project. This year, even before summer began, Bill Stenger and his partner announced that they bought Burke Mountain and would operate it beside Jay Peak. This is a huge development because JPR has been getting a lot of attention with its development work and it puts them into a multi-ski area management company ala Triple Peaks or even, gasp, ASC. What will they do with Burke this summer? In the longer term? Will they break the "curse" that Burke has had for many years and make it a sustainable business? I think that you can't argue that in this market Stenger is the best shot that Burke has. He has been a long-time manager at Jay and made it very successful despite often bad weather and the fact that Jay is very isolated. And will Jay continue the big expansion work or will it slow? West Bowl...ever?
• Crotched: Last year we were talking about Peak Resort's IPO. Before that we were commenting about them buying Wildcat and what that meant. Well, Wildcat hasn't really changed and Peak Resorts has slowed down with its improvements. Attitash is not a popular place for AZ skiers. But Crotched is moving out of the Pats Peak/Nashoba Valley league of resort and into something a bit bigger with its new (well, new to them) HSQ that is going in as we speak. Crotched was in the running last year for the lift, but Burke got first dibs and then when the lift was embroiled in more legal wrangling, Burke backed out and got a brand new Poma lift (good move IMHO). So will this mean more business for Crotched and Peak Resorts allowing them to have some more money in the coffers for Wildcat?
• Ascutney: It has been dead, regrettably, now for almost three seasons. This will be the third season that the resort will not see TLC to get ready for ski season and, instead, will be losing its HSQ. It is still a viable resort for the right owner or lessor but if it sits idle another season the chances of it reopening get slimmer because the cost of rehabbing the lifts and snowmaking will go up even more. Will we see someone step in this summer or is it gone for good?
• Tenney: Same as Ascutney. Gone for almost three seasons. The last owner was rumored to have plans and was supposedly going to dismantle the double and install a HSQ...that was until they either ran out of money, energy, or time. There was a tax sale but like Ascutney the trails are beginning to grow in. Is it gone?
• Magic: A survivor with a shot in the arm thanks to its new cooperative ownership. The goal has been met and they have some money. Work has been going on with its snowmaking and lifts but the management knows that they need to expand their customer base and get more skier/rider days in order to sustain itself as a business. Their "indy ski area" strategy seems to be working.
• Waterville: Another resort that does not get lots of attention from AZer's, but the Sununu's have big plans. We will see what happens this summer. Expansion of terrain is coming supposedly.
• Boyne: Big improvements at Sunday River and Sugarloaf, but no huge plans this summer. Will they lay low this summer?
• Cannon: The controversial Mittersill did not see many skiers last season and this is one reason why snowmaking may be coming to it. The other is Cannon's desire to once again become a big ski-racing venue, pressured by one of its constituents, Franconia Ski Club and its influential alum. As Burke can attest, being a ski-racing venue can help you survive, but you won't thrive. Will Cannon take another step toward snowmaking, night skiing, and racing at Mittersill?

So what others are there?

Great recap. Thanks for the summary.

 

[wa-loaf]

I thought this was going to be a fitness thread.

 

[gregnye]

I would be really interested to find more information on the Waterville Valley Expansion--it being the mountain I grew up on, and always the first one I hit during the season. There was some talk about extending the T-bar higher and the Green Mountain Proposal--but I haven't heard much.

 

[jaytrem]

I would be really interested to find more information on the Waterville Valley Expansion--it being the mountain I grew up on, and always the first one I hit during the season. There was some talk about extending the T-bar higher and the Green Mountain Proposal--but I haven't heard much.

Pretty good info here...

http://www.newenglandskihistory.com/skiareaexpansions/NewHampshire/watervillevalley.php

Not sure what the timeline is, but it does seem to be moving in the right direction.

 

[cannonist]

Pretty good info here...

http://www.newenglandskihistory.com/skiareaexpansions/NewHampshire/watervillevalley.php

Not sure what the timeline is, but it does seem to be moving in the right direction.

The timeline as it stands is to have all the approvals and plans finished by fall and to begin construction this winter (not really sure why you would want to do clearing in the winter dosn't really seem productive, but it is cheaper)

The opening date I believe is set somewhere around christmas of 2013-2014

There has also been some mentioning of possible glade cutting this fall before ski season. Well see how that goes...

 

[thetrailboss]

The timeline as it stands is to have all the approvals and plans finished by fall and to begin construction this winter (not really sure why you would want to do clearing in the winter dosn't really seem productive, but it is cheaper)

The opening date I believe is set somewhere around christmas of 2013-2014

There has also been some mentioning of possible glade cutting this fall before ski season. Well see how that goes...

I might be wrong, but they do log in the winter because the skidders do less damage to the ground (which is frozen).

 

[from_the_NEK]

• Crotched: Last year we were talking about Peak Resort's IPO. Before that we were commenting about them buying Wildcat and what that meant. Well, Wildcat hasn't really changed and Peak Resorts has slowed down with its improvements. Attitash is not a popular place for AZ skiers. But Crotched is moving out of the Pats Peak/Nashoba Valley league of resort and into something a bit bigger with its new (well, new to them) HSQ that is going in as we speak. Crotched was in the running last year for the lift, but Burke got first dibs and then when the lift was embroiled in more legal wrangling, Burke backed out and got a brand new Poma lift (good move IMHO). So will this mean more business for Crotched and Peak Resorts allowing them to have some more money in the coffers for Wildcat?
• Ascutney: It has been dead, regrettably, now for almost three seasons. This will be the third season that the resort will not see TLC to get ready for ski season and, instead, will be losing its HSQ. It is still a viable resort for the right owner or lessor but if it sits idle another season the chances of it reopening get slimmer because the cost of rehabbing the lifts and snowmaking will go up even more. Will we see someone step in this summer or is it gone for good?

• 
  
  Pictures of the quad being removed last month in Ascutney:
  
  http://thevermontstandard.smugmug.c...-Lift/23517376_JcpFBH#!i=1901370087&k=dSCRJRH

 

[thetrailboss]

First Tracks and WCAX report more detail on what is going on at Burke. In sum, Stenger and crew are not sitting back and moving ahead with snowmaking improvements. Two new pumps are coming that will increase capacity 50%. And Stenger has said that they will be getting "75-100 new guns." I'm not sure what that means...if it means new mounted HKD's or just 100 new guns that will be moved around. Probably the latter. At any rate, a huge improvement. If they do what Jay does, they will get HKD's and move them from trail to trail as needed.

http://www.firsttracksonline.com/2012/07/03/jay-peak-to-combine-season-passes-with-burke-mountain/

http://www.wcax.com/story/18949486/new-owner-of-vt-ski-resort-to-boost-snowmaking

Good move. It will make Burke a serious contender and with new skiers and riders from Jay I think that will help.

I'm not sure where Marc got the part about Mid-Burke being closed because of lack of snowmaking. Indeed everyone had a shortened season due to the weather, but that was not due to lack of snowmaking at Burke.

 

[from_the_NEK]

The Caledonian article also mentions a new 800hp pump.
It will be interseting to find out where all the new stuff will go. Snowmaking on Doug's, or Powderhorn/Wilderness?

 

[thetrailboss]

The Caledonian article also mentions a new 800hp pump.
It will be interseting to find out where all the new stuff will go. Snowmaking on Doug's, or Powderhorn/Wilderness?

Yeah, and none of that article is on their website. :roll:

Doug's is actually all ready to roll. Northern Star installed a place for a spur to tie into the lines on Toll Road right below where "Upper Upper" crosses Toll Road.

 

[from_the_NEK]

Yeah, and none of that article is on their website. :roll:

Doug's is actually all ready to roll. Northern Star installed a place for a spur to tie into the lines on Toll Road right below where "Upper Upper" crosses Toll Road.

Well it mostly ready to go Still need to install the actual spur.
The master plan submitted for Act 250 review in 2009 had new pipes and "valve houses" all over the place. Of course that snowmaking plan was based around the huge trail widening/expansion project that was also on that map uke:. http://www.anr.state.vt.us/imaging/planning/7C0206-13/Burke.Act250app.Exhibit1E(d)-1.PDF

I wonder if we will be able to be able to infer what new plans for expansion are planned by how the snowmaking system is expanded.

 

[k123]

Belleayre is doing some upgrades on their snowmaking pipes.




http://www.belleayre.com/emails/specials.htm

 

[stomachdoc]

The timeline as it stands is to have all the approvals and plans finished by fall and to begin construction this winter (not really sure why you would want to do clearing in the winter dosn't really seem productive, but it is cheaper)

The opening date I believe is set somewhere around christmas of 2013-2014

All systems are "go" with this with the plans as mentioned above. The owners expect USFS approval this fall, and expect to open Green Peak (with ultimately 12 new trails) for the '13-'14 season. A new HSQ will be put in to service the terrain.

The gondola from Town Square will be in the second phase, as will a new base area where lot 9 currently is. This means that you'll no longer have to walk up hill from parking to access the lift system.

The new owners are really dialing it up; lots of activity here this summer---several weddings booked, both the Black Fly Triathalon and New Hampshire Tennis Open this weekend alone! Wally the Green Monster next weekend (the owners signed a marketing agreement with the Red Sox--Waterville is now the "Official Mountain of the Red Sox."

 

[steamboat1]

Don't know what's going on at Stowe but I saw a heck of a lot of new snow making pipe being stored in one of the back lots near the gondola the other day. Even saw another trailer load coming up the access road when I was leaving.

 

[riverc0il]

The new owners are really dialing it up; lots of activity here this summer---several weddings booked, both the Black Fly Triathalon and New Hampshire Tennis Open this weekend alone! Wally the Green Monster next weekend (the owners signed a marketing agreement with the Red Sox--Waterville is now the "Official Mountain of the Red Sox."

I don't know about the NH Tennis Open (I couldn't find any info about it via a Google search), but the Black Fly Tri is nothing new at Waterville and I suspect the Valley hosts several weddings every years. I don't think linking those to the new owners is really legit but if they landed the Tennis Open and it is a big deal (despite nothing showing up in Google), then that is something to feather their cap with. Walley is paid money/marketing so that's in the bag.

It'll be nice if the new owners can make something of WV. I did a bike ride from home to Waterville and back a few weeks ago. While the ski area itself isn't much to write home about, it is an amazing four season area with ample bed base and tons of recreational opportunities. I almost made a new thread following that ride regarding WV's potential. I'm surprised the place hasn't been hoping. They certainly have a really good opportunity to capitalize on this expansion.

 

[Telemechanic]

I found the NH Tennis Open on the Waterville Valley Tennis Center's website: http://www.wvtennis.com/calendarofevents.html They also hosted it last year.

Are the Center and the ski area owned by the same people? The Center pre-dates the the ski area by 82 years.

 

[Geoff]

All systems are "go" with this with the plans as mentioned above. The owners expect USFS approval this fall, and expect to open Green Peak (with ultimately 12 new trails) for the '13-'14 season. A new HSQ will be put in to service the terrain.

The gondola from Town Square will be in the second phase, as will a new base area where lot 9 currently is. This means that you'll no longer have to walk up hill from parking to access the lift system.

What is Waterville going to use for snowmaking water supply as they expand the mountain? That is a big problem area for a lot of resorts. When you only average 100-odd inches per year, you need near-infinite water and an efficient snowmaking system.

 

[stomachdoc]

What is Waterville going to use for snowmaking water supply as they expand the mountain? That is a big problem area for a lot of resorts. When you only average 100-odd inches per year, you need near-infinite water and an efficient snowmaking system.

I assume that they'll pull from the Mad River, and I believe that another pond is in the expansion plan.