To groom or not to groom

[freeheelwilly]

that is the question.

Obviously there are times when recent weather events make grooming a necessity but other than those times, what do you prefer? I myself am not a big fan of grooming. Corduroy? Blah! And I'm not just talkin' about letin' the bumps be bumps: sometimes they get all assymetrical and deeply trenched, unevenly spaced...whatever and they have to go. What really irks me is when you find some really nice cut-up powder, probably on the sides, and the next run through, they've groomed it! Makes me want to scream! What say all of you?

 

[dmc]

I like when a mountain grooms JUST before a dumping...
Otherwise - I think mountains can get too aggressive with it...

 

[thetrailboss]

that is the question.

Obviously there are times when recent weather events make grooming a necessity but other than those times, what do you prefer? I myself am not a big fan of grooming. Corduroy? Blah! And I'm not just talkin' about letin' the bumps be bumps: sometimes they get all assymetrical and deeply trenched, unevenly spaced...whatever and they have to go. What really irks me is when you find some really nice cut-up powder, probably on the sides, and the next run through, they've groomed it! Makes me want to scream! What say all of you?

I recall this discussion in the SB chat room and I don't recall your response, Freeheel.

My thoughts are this--grooming on designated cruisers is fine and welcome. It should be done almost nightly. Now assuming that the expert terrain has enough snow and a deep enough base and grooming were possible, I think that knocking it all down once every two weeks or so is fine so as to avoid the troughs to turn into rock/grass/ice. They should also do so when conditions warrant (i.e. thaw followed by a freeze). At Burke, for example, they regularly groom Willoughby and the Dippers, but allow Wilderness and Lower Doug's go pretty much for the winter, but they have groomed them when things got too hairy. Some balance is good.

In the case of SB, I liked it when the groomed Exterminator and Upper FIS once or twice a month, which made it more enjoyable. They also leave Paradise and Spillsville (as well as Upper Bravo, Black Diamond Rush, Paradise, Rumble, Liftline, etc) alone which is a good balance.

I'd say if you are a real "purist," there is some stuff for you, but if you want more, go to Tuck's or Mad River :wink:

 

[oneotwoandcounting]

Good Question FHW,

I like variety so a mix of grooming and ungroomed is what I look for. At Whiteface I think they over groom and don’t leave enough bumps on the trails. Except for Wilderness they knock most of them down.

Years ago I use to ski Mad River and the only grooming they did on The Cute was the ski patrol stomping on the bumps with their skis or knocking them down a bit with a shovel. I never saw a machine on the trail. Although it’s been years since I skied there the last time was on a warm day in February and the bumps were Volkswagon size and soft. It was one of my best days ever of bump skiing.

I ski the entire mountain at WF mixing up groomed, bumps, and powder when I can find them/it. Often you have to go into the glades to bump ski at Whiteface and it is a challenge working your way though the bumps and trees. My knees aren’t what they used to be so I can’t spend an entire day in bumps or powder anymore but I do think the ungroomed does make a better skier of someone.

Spend some time in bumps and powder than jump on a groomed trail and see how much easier skiing becomes. Some adversity can make a better skier of us all.

Than there are the days when everything turns into ice after a thaw or rain and I have skied trails that become life threatening. Thank God for the grooming than.

 

[ctenidae]

Grooming, as well as everything else in life, is covered quite well, to my mind, by one phrase: Everything in moderation, including moderation itself.

 

[JimG.]

Grooming has its' place, and it should stay there. Beginner/intermediate terrain, fine. Black diamonds after a thaw/freeze, fine. Other than that, no thanks!

 

[freeheelwilly]

Spend some time in bumps and powder than jump on a groomed trail and see how much easier skiing becomes. Some adversity can make a better skier of us all.

Truer words have never been posted. Last year at WF I got in the habit of starting the day by skiing Wilderness. It was amazing how much "easier" everything seemed after that.

Boy I hope they don't postpone the planned opening Saturday. I don't think they will but this warm weather depresses me. next 2 weeks look chilly willy though. Come on Saturday! :beer:

 

[freeheelwilly]

Trailboss

I didn't hang too much on the SB forum. Too busy quibbling with the children on the ADK forum I guess! :wink: The time I did spend there was enjoyable though. You guys were cool! 8) Plus, I really like Sugarbush. (now when are one of you tight lipped locals gonna finally show me around!)

 

[Greg]

Spend some time in bumps and powder than jump on a groomed trail and see how much easier skiing becomes. Some adversity can make a better skier of us all.

Truer words have never been posted. Last year at WF I got in the habit of starting the day by skiing Wilderness. It was amazing how much "easier" everything seemed after that.

I totally agree here. I am continually looking for bumps, crud, powder, etc. for a challenge as the groomers seem easy now.

Boy I hope they don't postpone the planned opening Saturday. I don't think they will but this warm weather depresses me. next 2 weeks look chilly willy though. Come on Saturday! :beer:

Well, they officially announced their opening:

http://news.alpinezone.com/2359/

So I think you'll be fine. They did however add those two little words we all despise to their press release; "weather permitting"...

 

[thetrailboss]

Trailboss

I didn't hang too much on the SB forum. Too busy quibbling with the children on the ADK forum I guess! :wink: The time I did spend there was enjoyable though. You guys were cool! 8) Plus, I really like Sugarbush. (now when are one of you tight lipped locals gonna finally show me around!)

Well, great having you here and I think that you will enjoy this board better since there are some great people here as well :wink:

 

[riverc0il]

agree with pretty much everything already posted. almost all mountains are way overgroomed and challenge has been taken out of too much on piste skiing. for some reason, most ski areas feel that only black diamonds should go ungroomed, and only half of them at best at that. getting people off groomers and pushing their ski abilities to ski natural and in the bumps begins on blue squares (or it should, it doesn't right now... i learned bumps and powder and crud on black diamonds). i am strongly in favor of "half grommed" runs on the blue and black levels, though mostly on the blue. some steep groomers are fun, but i think at least half blacks should offer some sort of, if not completely, natural snow conditions.

face it folks, you're not a legit expert skier if you can only ski groomed. as a former racer i realized this and taught myself various other conditions and can ski the entire mountain now in nearly any conditions. who knew... it's more fun being able to do more!!!

sadly the majority of people like things easy without putting in much effort, so groomers are en vogue.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

Most people who complain about groomers are a bunch of posers who really can't ski anything else, just like Willy. Ahahaha. They get into the trees or bumps and they can't link 2 turns together. Slip down to first tree - stop - plant poles - turn skis 90 degrees - go to next tree - repeat. That ain't skiin, it's the Willy shuffle. Ahahahaha.

Willy, I miss you. I'll be there Sat. too. :beer:

These emoticons are cool.

 

[freeheelwilly]

Most people who complain about groomers are a bunch of posers who really can't ski anything else, just like Willy. Ahahaha. They get into the trees or bumps and they can't link 2 turns together. Slip down to first tree - stop - plant poles - turn skis 90 degrees - go to next tree - repeat. That ain't skiin, it's the Willy shuffle. Ahahahaha.

Willy, I miss you. I'll be there Sat. too. :beer:

These emoticons are cool.

Who are you??? Hahhahaah! Miss you too HPD! "the Willy shuffle": that's a good one (and prob'ly describes my tree skiing more than I want to admit :lol: )

 

[trailbiscuit]

Most people who complain about groomers are a bunch of posers who really can't ski anything else.

Those are the same people that buy lift tickets, condo packages and the like. I call them revenue stream skiers. That's who the resorts have to cater to in order to keep the cash flowing. People want to come back from their ski vacation feeeling like heros! "I skied a double black, dude!" Good for you, and we'll see you next season.

In that vein, I personally think resorts groom too much. I enjoy playing around in the crud and slop.

Also, I think they are sadly uncreative in their grooming, and mountains ops folks can be pretty robotic. Why not mix it up? Let a trail bump up for a couple weeks, then groom it for a week, then let it bump up again. This way the trail is always different. Additionally, running a machine over the same patch of snow consistently really beats it up. Let those flakes breathe!

 

[Charlie Schuessler]

Understanding the business & social benefits of groomed trails including the enjoyment of easily achieved speed on groomed trails, I prefer trails with natural snow including bumps, ice, rocks, stumps & crud developed by skier actions and the wonders of Mother Nature.

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

In a lot of high traffic areas, grooming is often necessary to help preserve the snowpack. THat being said...

Less is more, as far as I'm concerned. While I'm not a bump skier, cordouroy holds not chalenge, so I'd rather hit bumps, trees, crud, ice, etc.. I might not always be pretty, but I always have fun!

 

[RossiSkier]

I wish I had a pair of powder skis for those ungroomed trails I skied during blizzard conditions. I had skis that respond better on groomed trails. I need some B2's for ungroomed trails. Live and learn.

 

[Vortex]

I have a slightly different view. I like leaving areas ungroomed. I don't usually go there. I know others do and we need all skiers to keep resorts going.
I like hero snow. Fresh groomed and steep. I like to carve turns. I understand how some feel stuff is overgroomed, People want to go home feeling good.(well said) If they don't then they won't come back and more and more places will face financial problems. I belive the squeeky wheel gets the grease. If you e-mail your resort and tell them how you feel you might get some satisfaction. Example the bumps on Sunset at Loon. Last year they put them on the right. pretty hard for an intermidiate skiier to Navigate. Alot of people spoke out and they are on the left know, and everyone can get what they want.
As putting a clasification on ski ability I don't really care about that I make turns I have fun.

 

[hammer]

As an aspiring intermediate who still has a lot to learn, the groomed trails are where I end up spending most of my time.

I agree, though, that ski areas need to have variety...while I can have fun zipping down blue groomers all day and working on my carving skills (for whatever they are worth), I also like to take diversions through a few bumps and open glades once in a while.

 

[dmc]

I like it when they groom at the beggining of the weekend and then let it go ungroomed for a couple of days...
I watch the winch-cats groom a couple of the steeper trails at Hunter from my place.. It's so cool..