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Vail/Park City Permanently Close Dutch Draw Gate

thetrailboss

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FBGM

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Dumb. It’s still public land. Access and ski it from other side. Just a huge pain

Also the Coloney put up avy fences that are huge and ugly in the middle of next zone over.

Might as well just close the backcountry at this point. Maybe Vail will cut down all the trees so no one hits them and dies. Also should not serve greasy food, that sill stop heart attacks on the mountain. (More people die from trees or heart attacks then avy)
 

abc

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But is it possible that the “inexperienced skier/rider” subtly push the experienced skier/rider to venture into the avi zone at higher risk days to “beat the crowd” to get the fresh line?

Routes requiring a hike (even a short one) may reduces the competition and lead to slightly less risky behavior? That’s been the talk in Europe. the last 10 years or so, guides had to take more and more risk because more people are skiing off-piste unguided. Many deaths involved guided groups doing routes in the wrong time.
 

machski

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Just dumbing down PCMR. Never skied PC proper, skied the Canyons before the interconnect and DV. Meh. Both the wife and I agree we don't need to visit to PC side again, and she isn't huge on the two Canyons either. We both like Snowbasin, so if we do UT again, likely make that our focus. But plenty of other areas I want to hit up out west.
 

drjeff

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But is it possible that the “inexperienced skier/rider” subtly push the experienced skier/rider to venture into the avi zone at higher risk days to “beat the crowd” to get the fresh line?

Routes requiring a hike (even a short one) may reduces the competition and lead to slightly less risky behavior? That’s been the talk in Europe. the last 10 years or so, guides had to take more and more risk because more people are skiing off-piste unguided. Many deaths involved guided groups doing routes in the wrong time.
Totally agree with this.

Dutch Draw is simply take 9990 to the top, hang a quick left, and in maybe 50 feet or so you're there.

Then look at say Square Top which is typically accessed via a probably 30 ish minute hike from Super Condor.

Both are some appealing looking terrain for those with little to no back country experience for sure. One of them, has way more tracks than the other for sure.

The easier you make it for folks to get in over their heads (and probably not realize that they're getting in over their heads) the more and more folks tend to do that these days...... Too bad for those who have the skills and experience to do things properly, and even then in some cases, things can still go horrifically wrong on occasion
 

p_levert

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If you're a flatlander, 10 minute hikes are a major deterrent. Anything uphill at 10k feet just kills me. So I think the PC policy change will have an impact.

OTOH, if you live in SLC, 10 or 20 minute hikes are no big deal.
 

dblskifanatic

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The easier you make it for folks to get in over their heads (and probably not realize that they're getting in over their heads) the more and more folks tend to do that these days...... Too bad for those who have the skills and experience to do things properly, and even then in some cases, things can still go horrifically wrong on occasion

Yet the two they mentioned were experienced skiers - leaning on the later part of your statement.
 

drjeff

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Yet the two they mentioned were experienced skiers - leaning on the later part of your statement.


Exactly, and while his name current escapes me, I was also thinking about the seasoned back country skier with strong ties to I believe MRG who passed away in an avalanche on Mount Washington this past season.

There are certainly times when even the most experienced can't match what Mother Nature can bring to the table
 

dblskifanatic

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Exactly, and while his name current escapes me, I was also thinking about the seasoned back country skier with strong ties to I believe MRG who passed away in an avalanche on Mount Washington this past season.

There are certainly times when even the most experienced can't match what Mother Nature can bring to the table

happens more often than we know - living in Colorado we heard about them all the time.
 

Smellytele

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Exactly, and while his name current escapes me, I was also thinking about the seasoned back country skier with strong ties to I believe MRG who passed away in an avalanche on Mount Washington this past season.

There are certainly times when even the most experienced can't match what Mother Nature can bring to the table
Skiin’ Ian. I think that was his nickname.
 

FBGM

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I finally pulled the trigger. 13 years here in PC and done. Moving back east months end. Anyone want to buy a house? Cheapest home possibly in PC area code. 20 min to airport. 12 to Main Street.
 

drjeff

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I finally pulled the trigger. 13 years here in PC and done. Moving back east months end. Anyone want to buy a house? Cheapest home possibly in PC area code. 20 min to airport. 12 to Main Street.

Hope the seller's market out in the PC area is as hot as it is in much of Northeast ski country right now!

Friends trying to buy a condo up in the Mount Snow area right now. They've bid on 4 propeties within the last week that just had been listed (all in the 3-400k range). Within 24 - 48 hours, all 4 had sold with a minimum of 4 offers on them (all cash offers) at anywhere from 15 to almost 25% over the listing price, and the listing prices were all probably a 1/3rd more than they would of been 18 months ago pre Covid
 

FBGM

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Hope the seller's market out in the PC area is as hot as it is in much of Northeast ski country right now!

Friends trying to buy a condo up in the Mount Snow area right now. They've bid on 4 propeties within the last week that just had been listed (all in the 3-400k range). Within 24 - 48 hours, all 4 had sold with a minimum of 4 offers on them (all cash offers) at anywhere from 15 to almost 25% over the listing price, and the listing prices were all probably a 1/3rd more than they would of been 18 months ago pre Covid
It’s still hot out here. Not as crazy as maybe 6 months ago but I’m not to worried about selling my place close to asking. Waiting until spring due to some renters and just making sure I settle back down in East. Hope the spring is still decent. PC has always had an good market
 

BenedictGomez

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Friends trying to buy a condo up in the Mount Snow area right now. They've bid on 4 propeties within the last week that just had been listed (all in the 3-400k range). Within 24 - 48 hours, all 4 had sold with a minimum of 4 offers on them (all cash offers) at anywhere from 15 to almost 25% over the listing price, and the listing prices were all probably a 1/3rd more than they would of been 18 months ago pre Covid

Tell them to wait until 2022. All signs indicate this ludicrous market is in about the bottom of the 7th inning.

#InShillerITrust
 

BenedictGomez

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I presume this is just some overzealous Vail actuary attempting to decrease VR's potential legal exposure?

Or does this somehow save Vail a lot of money in another way I'm not thinking of?

Money is always the answer somehow or someway for way, anyone falling for the "safety first" angle's a sucker.
 

ss20

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Yeah, this can't go on forever. The SLC market is nuts and has been since about 2018 but things are beginning to slow.


I've literally just begun my apartment search the past couple days and have found numerous places sub $1,100 rent studio/1 bedroom. On the bus route in Sandy/Midvale and even a couple in Cottonwood Heights. I find it surprising given we're 2-3 months from ski season and I'm sure I'm not alone in looking for apartments in these locations.

I have a question, does the market cool off after the Christmas holidays, once all the resort workers are settled? Right now my emergency back-up plan is staying in an extended stay, running me $1800 a month. I couldn't do it sustained month-month but I can see myself doing it if the market does in fact cool down after the influx of seasonal workers is over. Maybe I'm overthinking it... but my micro-econ brain is telling me thousands upon thousands of seasonal workers flooding the area would raise rates in the fall and then drop in December for whatever inventory is remaining.
 
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