twinplanx
Active member
:evil:Seriously the go go juice was inchin up all week. I think it went up 15cnts around luch time? 3.59 a gallon the cheapest 'round her
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Whats going on w/ the price of gas...
- Thread starter twinplanx
- Start date
severine
New member
I was wondering the same. It was around $3.31 the other day... then overnight it jumped to $3.64. :angry: This is absolutely ridiculous. I don't care what they say about it not being the most expensive ever when adjusting for inflation. It's still risen at an exorbitant rate over the last year.
mondeo
New member
China, India, and the weak dollar. It'll happen.
severine
New member
Bite your tongue!
Seriously, I am all for better alternatives, conservation, etc. But as a member of a single-income home with 2 small children, my car=freedom. Sometimes sanity. I'm not in a position to be buying a more fuel-efficient vehicle (the car payment negates the savings on gas). But paying more and more for gas also means I'm stuck home more with the kids. How many of you have been home with 2 little ones day in and day out? How long would you survive before you lost your mind? :-o
I'm only saying this because I feel like this country (myself included) really needs to reprogram the way we think about cars, houses, waste ect... not just from an environmental standpoint, but to be able to steer away from fossil fuel and extreme waste. The only to get through is $$$$ in this country. I don't like how other countries view us and in the end we will need to make some fast changes. The amount of oil left in the world is open for debate but its not going to last forever.
Oh and there is the whole global warming thing....
twinplanx
Active member
True... but the price of fuel is running away in the race against change. I read in the Long Island Press(I think) that theres enough oil to last 50yrs. There should be a way to handicap fuel prices. Given that time frame.
global warming sux:evil:
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Yeah but change is only going to be driven by market demand, lots of big suv's on the road still. I bet it would take many years for a sustainable solution like hydrogen fuel cells or whatever to be perfected and put into place. I would rather that be put into place now than later, especially with a rapidly warming earth. In the end I think folks will rethink what they are driving @ 6$ per gallon. Maybe car manufacturers would get real and come up with some more efficient solutions than a hybrid suv that now gets 26 mpg....b.s. People will demand better efficiency, and god forbid good public transportation. It's sad but this is what we need for a change, I bet it gets a whole lot worse in the next 5-10 years. This is something that needs to happen now and as quickly as possible truly beleive.
mondeo
New member
Hydrogen fuel cells or electric cars don't do anything until the electric production system has excessive, non-fossil fuel sources of energy. At this point, all you're doing is burning coal/gas/oil somewhere, turning that into electricity, then storing it directly or turning it into hydrogen for storage. Yes, the power plants are more efficient by themselves, but it's only a small gain once you start adding up all the additional losses. Algae holds some promise, but it will probably be 3-5 years before it starts showing any significant results.
So. Cal, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas should all be powered by solar or other means within 10 years. No. Cal, Oregon, Washington, and the East Coast by wave, tidal, or current sources within 20. Midwest you would think would be prime for wind. Until the last coal plant is shut down, the focus needs to be on efficiency, not changing the means of energy storage. Which means California needs to make up their mind, and stop cramming more and more stupid safety requirements down our throats.
The cost to produce energy from solar, wind, etc. is going to continue to drop as the cost to produce from oil and gas continues to rise. I suspect the energy companies will stop using oil and natural gas a lot quicker than most people expect, just because of economics.
So. Cal, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas should all be powered by solar or other means within 10 years. No. Cal, Oregon, Washington, and the East Coast by wave, tidal, or current sources within 20. Midwest you would think would be prime for wind. Until the last coal plant is shut down, the focus needs to be on efficiency, not changing the means of energy storage. Which means California needs to make up their mind, and stop cramming more and more stupid safety requirements down our throats.
The cost to produce energy from solar, wind, etc. is going to continue to drop as the cost to produce from oil and gas continues to rise. I suspect the energy companies will stop using oil and natural gas a lot quicker than most people expect, just because of economics.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yeah I really don't know what will replace oil, just that its inevitable. I think your right about solar, wind and tidal, it's there for the taking and just makes sense. I think I read something in national geographic about the explosion of old-school dirty coal fired plants in China right now, kinda scary. I suppose all we can do as consumers is vote with our dollars and the market will respond.
Yeah I really don't know what will replace oil, just that its inevitable. I think your right about solar, wind and tidal, it's there for the taking and just makes sense. I think I read something in national geographic about the explosion of old-school dirty coal fired plants in China right now, kinda scary. I suppose all we can do as consumers is vote with our dollars and the market will respond.
riverc0il
New member
Nope, same here. Bring it. Just bring it slow enough that innovation and change can take place. I am all for changing things up but don't want to bring down the whole economy in the process.
ckofer
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How about a bus that picks us up and brings 40 of us at a time to the ski areas?
mondeo
New member
Hell, I'd take a friend with a Civic. Ran the numbers, and it's nowhere near viable for me to get an old Civic/Corolla/etc. just to go skiing with (probably obvious, but figured I'd check.) The plan is to start riding my bike to work and get a motorcycle for when a bike won't do but I don't need a car (fun factor takes some of the place of pure economics there.) That'll at least help as far as gas goes in the summer, but I figure I spent $800-1000 on gas this year just for skiing - 22-24mpg highway with premium fuel has a lot of room for improvement. A Civic alone would cut that in half, then splitting the bill on top would be another half; even counting for travel to meet someone, I'd probably cut the gas bill by 60-65%.
There you go. Sell your car and get a civic/corrolla...whatever used. these cars are dirt cheap to buy, drive and they last for 250,000 minimum. Sure they're not fancy but they get the job done and I'm sure you can find use with all that extra money. I would rather take the winter off and ski 100 days than drive a new car that I don't have cash for the payment or the fuel bill. Really think about it-the idea of expensive fuel is relatively new to many of us and its probably going to get much higher in the coming years.
riverc0il
New member
Word. I got thinking recently not about the cost of fuel now (whatev, I can deal, though people without much money are going to get pinched a bit more) but rather the cost of fuel in 5-10 years, especially as nations such as China continue to drive up demand.
Heck, our own vehicle choices are driving up demand... is it just me or are economy cars getting worse MPG now than a few years ago? For example, my 99 Saturn Coupe averages 35 highway (respectable). Saturn's best fuel economy now is 32 MPG which is a tie between the economy car and the family sedan hybrid. The freaking sedan hybrid does not get as good gas miles as my 9 year old non-hybrid economy.. This is a step forward? Honda's non-hybrid Accord gets freaking 31 MPG!!! The Civic gets 36 but I swear it used to be higher. And of course, the old CRX used to get like 50 MPG.
After cranking out a ridiculous 44.88 MPG today on a 201.7 mile round trip backroad drive to Stowe, I got to thinking the downgrade to a Subaru just might not be a good value the way gas is going. It certainly is only going to increase. I am really bummed that consumer demand has not driven more innovation in MPG. And F hybrids until they can get economy car MRG at a minimum. 30 really is my minimum expectation and hybrids getting 32 MPG highway are really not impressive.
*sigh*
So that is why I agree with let's go $5-6/gallon of gas. The finances still have not tipped in favor of fuel efficient vehicles so we see limited innovation and hybrid models that really are only slightly increasing MPG in a very narrow model range.
It needs to be slower than it's current rate by far. I'm cool with prices outgaining inflation by 5% a year. This has not been the case over the past 5 years. The reality is that 70% of our economy is driven my consumer spending. Yes, viable renewable energy sources need to happen and quick, but there needs to be balance. Rising fuel costs are a big part of our current economic slowdown in addition to rising food costs, which brings me to my next point.
The one thing that needs to STOP immediately is the use of crops to create fuel. I personaly think there should be an immediate ban on ethanol, boideisel etc except that which is produced from the recycled bi-product of the crops original purpose. If you want to turn spent vegetable oil from a fryer at a restaurant into bio-diesel to fuel your car, knock yourself out. Crops shouldn't however go straight from the ground to the processing plant.
I don't care if these fuels are renewable, burn cleaner etc, you DO NOT eff with the food supply to put vehicles in motion. This practice is just about the dumbest idea for renewable energy I have ever heard of. You can thank bio-fuels for your $5 a gallon milk price and any product grain related that has gone up over 20% in the past year with no ceiling in sight. The only people who benefit from this practice are some farmers. At the same time any farmers who raise livestock are going broke because of the rising feed cost.
As someone who works in the food supply business, rising food costs are scaring me more right now than rising fuel costs. Raising the price of fuel to $5-6 a gallon will only compound what is already a VERY bad situation.
ckofer
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I think we need to look beyond our personal affordability threasholds. Aggregate demand for energy must be reduced.
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In addition, I think the value of hybrids is realized in cities more than highways. They also pollute less.
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In addition, I think the value of hybrids is realized in cities more than highways. They also pollute less.
riverc0il
New member
deadhead, I disagree. Increasing crop prices is a good thing if we can get the government to stop having to subsidize our farms. Farmers should be able to support their families with their crops and if my grocery bill goes up $10-20 a week to support both farmers and new fuels, I am cool with that. Food prices are on the rise but gas prices shooting up 50 cents per gallon over the course of four months still has more impact on most consumers. Now, if you want to argue the merits of whether bio-fuels are actually accomplishing (or can accomplish on a large scale) the objective of lowering fuel costs, bring it on. In the meantime, any innovation pushes the envelope a bit more and I like that.
While consumer spending does help drive the economy, I really don't see the slow down being directly correlated with gas prices going up. The housing situation seems far more drastic and continues to put on some big hurts behind the scenes. The housing situation is going to effect consumer spending more than paying $10 more bucks a week in gas or $10 more a week on food. People are having to face some really nasty situations and that only scratches the surface as the with the entire lending industry in a rut (more student lenders just withdrew from the market just yesterday I believe), it is going to cut across the entire marketplace and hit consumers much harder than a few more bucks a week to fill the pump.
While consumer spending does help drive the economy, I really don't see the slow down being directly correlated with gas prices going up. The housing situation seems far more drastic and continues to put on some big hurts behind the scenes. The housing situation is going to effect consumer spending more than paying $10 more bucks a week in gas or $10 more a week on food. People are having to face some really nasty situations and that only scratches the surface as the with the entire lending industry in a rut (more student lenders just withdrew from the market just yesterday I believe), it is going to cut across the entire marketplace and hit consumers much harder than a few more bucks a week to fill the pump.
o3jeff
New member
Looks like the checks that we will be getting from the government next month are mostly going to be used to put gas in our cars and not much else. I am just thankful that work supplies me with a company car cause if I had to foot the bill for fuel from Southington to Glastonbury everyday I don't know were I would find the money for gas in my budget.
Tell that to the farmers who make a living raising livestock. Every single one of them that I've talked to is PISSED about what biofuel has down to the overall market. Having your feed cost triple in two years is not a good thing. Greated exporting grain and the week dollar is having a huge effect on the industry too, but every farmer I talk to, which is many due to my work, is 100% against the biofuel and feel it is a big part of the problem.
I'm not against grain farmers that make more money, but I stand by my position that is a horrible way to rob Peter to pay Paul and not good for the overall health of our economy.
