EVs - New Hampshire gets it right

[deadheadskier]

I'm curious here. Again, I'll preface that my support of EVs is all about the tech today and where I believe it will go. My position has nothing to do with it being greener.

However, there are some people here arguing that batteries are just as bad to produce from a pollution standpoint as ICE. Were you all hibernating during the early days of the pandemic and missed the MASSIVE improvements in air quality? Are you telling me that if we were to transition to all EVs our skies would look the same as they do today with ICE traffic?

Yes, I know there are other measurements for pollution than air quality. But the AQI is a pretty big one.

 

[Hawk]

DHS, you are confusing the situation with some common sense. you should disregard what looks to make sense in lieu of complicated minipulated data that shows that battery production, maintenance, charging and disposal is far more distructive than burning millions of gallons a day of gasoline. I mean there will definately be way more smog and cabon from EV's Right?

 

[snoseek]

I can't really afford am electric car at the moment but I'm all in on yard work equipment at home with a mower, blower and chainsaw all battery operated and will never look back at gas operated stuff. Between the three the batteries are interchangeable so no worries on having enough juice to get the job done.

I look forward to charging up my car someday I'll let the world/tech catch up and price come down.

 

[jimmywilson69]

how well does the chain saw work?

 

[1dog]

Are you telling me that if we were to transition to all EVs our skies would look the same as they do today with ICE traffic?

Yes. That picture from Spring 2020? Or a cool, dry fall day as opposed to high humidity day? I've seen the foothills of the Himalayas to your point, when no one was driving anything, anywhere.

But yes, this is just one study:

Mines, Minerals, and "Green" Energy: A Reality Check

Policymakers have made a "green" energy shift a priority in economic recovery, but these visions ignore the dirty process of switching to "green" energy.

manhattan.institute

Not cheaper, not cleaner, nowhere near as efficient ( energy density) as fossil fuels - all organic and made from compressed earth , animals, etc.

 

[Hawk]

I can tell you that with an acre of grass, there is no way I will use a battery operated lawn mower. Also I have a battery operated chain saw and it is good for pruning. But if you going to cut logs for say splitting it will not work well.

 

[Hawk]

Are you telling me that if we were to transition to all EVs our skies would look the same as they do today with ICE traffic?

Yes. That picture from Spring 2020? Or a cool, dry fall day as opposed to high humidity day? I've seen the foothills of the Himalayas to your point, when no one was driving anything, anywhere.

But yes, this is just one study:

Mines, Minerals, and "Green" Energy: A Reality Check

Policymakers have made a "green" energy shift a priority in economic recovery, but these visions ignore the dirty process of switching to "green" energy.

manhattan.institute

Not cheaper, not cleaner, nowhere near as efficient ( energy density) as fossil fuels - all organic and made from compressed earth , animals, etc.

Nope that's not exactly what I am saying. I am saying that if there were all EV's there would way less emisions of carbon and smoke in general. The sky can look hazy for many reasons.

 

[deadheadskier]

Are you telling me that if we were to transition to all EVs our skies would look the same as they do today with ICE traffic?

Yes. That picture from Spring 2020? Or a cool, dry fall day as opposed to high humidity day? I've seen the foothills of the Himalayas to your point, when no one was driving anything, anywhere.

But yes, this is just one study:

Mines, Minerals, and "Green" Energy: A Reality Check

Policymakers have made a "green" energy shift a priority in economic recovery, but these visions ignore the dirty process of switching to "green" energy.

manhattan.institute

Not cheaper, not cleaner, nowhere near as efficient ( energy density) as fossil fuels - all organic and made from compressed earth , animals, etc.

All over the globe saw massive, quantifiable reductions of smog when the roads were empty during the pandemic. That is the truth. I wasn't sharing some propaganda photo. Virtually all cities with major smog issues saw the cleanest air in decades. This is well documented.

So again, you maintain that the AQI will remain unchanged from what we see today with mainly ICE cars if we change to mainly EVs? That the factories and mining involved with battery products will generate as much smog as our global fleet of ICE vehicles?

 

[2Planker]

how well does the chain saw work?

Have an EGO Battery powered Mower for 1.7 acres. FAR better than any Toro or Honda we've had lately.
Also have a Stihl Battery powered 14" Chain Saw, very nice !! and a leaf blower.

ALL are way better than a gas model

 

[drjeff]

All over the globe saw massive, quantifiable reductions of smog when the roads were empty during the pandemic. That is the truth. I wasn't sharing some propaganda photo. Virtually all cities with major smog issues saw the cleanest air in decades. This is well documented.

So again, you maintain that the AQI will remain unchanged from what we see today with mainly ICE cars if we change to mainly EVs? That the factories and mining involved with battery products will generate as much smog as our global fleet of ICE vehicles?

Certainly the far less numbers of ICE vehicles on the roads early on in the pandemic had visible air quality results. Maybe some of the issue also lies with the urban population densities in those area where smog often is prevalent. Most anyone who lives away from urban sprawl will tell you that hazy skies tend to be associated with infrequent distant wildfires and other things such as light and noise pollution are basically non issues. And with more people able to work remotely these days, some people may choose to find out that living in a more rural area isn't always the stigma that some have that there aren't any creature conveniences around that they think can only be found in a large metropolitan area

Going EV may help make tangible differences in the population dense urban areas, however, based on current chargers densities and the capability of our existing electrical grid to keep up with the added demand that the regulatory push for more electric devices, from cars to commerical trucks, to some gas powered appliances, furnaces, etc, etc the need for fossil fuel powered vehicles and appliances is going to have to be there for probably a couple of decades unless we want to have a noticeable decrease in our expected standard of day to day life. And again, my wife has a plug in/gas hybrid vehicle, which suits the needs we have, without any effects on the travel lifestyle that we are accustomed to, and that is an important thing to us

 

[cdskier]

Just out of curiosity as I don't want to look back through this thread, but did anyone specifically claim EVs wouldn't help air quality/air pollution? If so I agree that's an incorrect thought as they should definitely reduce emissions, etc. The environmental impact of EVs/batteries is a different argument though and covers a broad range of things other than air pollution.

Old article so hopefully some of these items are already being addressed, but here's some of the type of environmental concerns regarding impact of batteries:

The spiralling environmental cost of our lithium battery addiction

As the world scrambles to replace fossil fuels with clean energy, the environmental impact of finding all the lithium required could become a major issue in its own right

www.wired.co.uk

 

[mister moose]

Here's a different take on EVs... Forget carbon for the moment.

What if we transition to 25% or so EVs, and the resultant drop in gasoline consumption is enough to consistently be oil independent, not a net importer. That's enough to keep developing the EV technology, folks can choose what car they want, and collectively give the middle finger to OPEC.

 

[deadheadskier]

Just out of curiosity as I don't want to look back through this thread, but did anyone specifically claim EVs wouldn't help air quality/air pollution? If so I agree that's an incorrect thought as they should definitely reduce emissions, etc. The environmental impact of EVs/batteries is a different argument though and covers a broad range of things other than air pollution.

Old article so hopefully some of these items are already being addressed, but here's some of the type of environmental concerns regarding impact of batteries:

The spiralling environmental cost of our lithium battery addiction

As the world scrambles to replace fossil fuels with clean energy, the environmental impact of finding all the lithium required could become a major issue in its own right

www.wired.co.uk

Well, it appears 1dog believes transitioning to EVs won't change things. Moose certainly hinted that the reduction in ICE vehicles wasn't going to result in much change in atmospheric carbon and threw a bunch of calculations behind his theory.

Maybe they are right, but the realities of what we saw early in the pandemic certainly show a cleaner world.

I was pretty clear that I was only focusing on air quality and that I admit there are other areas of pollution with battery production to consider.

 

[Hawk]

Have an EGO Battery powered Mower for 1.7 acres. FAR better than any Toro or Honda we've had lately.
Also have a Stihl Battery powered 14" Chain Saw, very nice !! and a leaf blower.

ALL are way better than a gas model

2planker, I have to disagree but it is perspective thing. I borrowed my brother in laws EGO before I got my new mower. It took me about 2 hours to do my lawn and by the end it was bogging down. I bought a 30" deck Toro with dual blades. I blast through my thick ass lawn like a hot knife through butter. It takes me less than an hour with the large deck. Nope not going electric.

Also I cut my own log lenghts and split for fire wood. There is no electric saw that would last worth anything through 18 to 24" oak and maple log lengths. Some days I spend 2 hours just cutting to size. Again nope. I have Stilh 18" and a Husqvarna 24" with freshly sharpened chains.

 

[x10003q]

Here's a different take on EVs... Forget carbon for the moment.

What if we transition to 25% or so EVs, and the resultant drop in gasoline consumption is enough to consistently be oil independent, not a net importer. That's enough to keep developing the EV technology, folks can choose what car they want, and collectively give the middle finger to OPEC.

US oil imports and exports are pretty complicated.
"In 2022, OPEC countries imported about 15% of their petroleum and 16% of their crude oil from the United States."

In the US, 12% of imported crude oil is from OPEC. Most of the crude oil imported into the US comes from Canada and Mexico.

"The top five sources of U.S. crude oil imports by percentage share of U.S. total crude oil imports in 2022 were:
Canada 60%
Mexico 10%
Saudi Arabia 7%
Iraq 4%
Colombia 3%"

Oil imports and exports - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

U.S. crude oil imports sources including OPEC and Persian Gulf, and top five source countries of U.S. oil imports and destinations of U.S. crude oil exports.

www.eia.gov

 

[thebigo]

I can't really afford am electric car at the moment but I'm all in on yard work equipment at home with a mower, blower and chainsaw all battery operated and will never look back at gas operated stuff. Between the three the batteries are interchangeable so no worries on having enough juice to get the job done.

I look forward to charging up my car someday I'll let the world/tech catch up and price come down.

by blower are you referring to a leaf blower or a snow blower?

I bought an electric oregon chain saw and it is awesome for small jobs, still go back to the gas hog for big cuts. Tried the electric oregon weed whacker but it would not accept standard attachments, had to return it and go back to gas.

 

[snoseek]

I can tell you that with an acre of grass, there is no way I will use a battery operated lawn mower. Also I have a battery operated chain saw and it is good for pruning. But if you going to cut logs for say splitting it will not work well.

The lawn here is 2.5 hours to mow with gas or electric. I use the batteries that came with the other tools and its just enough although I usually do it in pieces by choice as theres lots of little pieces.

 

[ceo]

I can tell you that with an acre of grass, there is no way I will use a battery operated lawn mower. Also I have a battery operated chain saw and it is good for pruning. But if you going to cut logs for say splitting it will not work well.

I don't have a lawn, but I was once doing some work for a friend and mowed his lawn, which was at least an acre and hadn't been mowed in a while, with his battery-powered mower, and it blasted right through everything and finished the job with electrons to spare. And this was 20 years ago.

 

[snoseek]

by blower are you referring to a leaf blower or a snow blower?

I bought an electric oregon chain saw and it is awesome for small jobs, still go back to the gas hog for big cuts. Tried the electric oregon weed whacker but it would not accept standard attachments, had to return it and go back to gas.

Leaf blower. I pay someone to plow No way I'm out blowing snow at 4am before work or skiing. Not sure how an electric snowblower would handle the heavy wet slop around here. The gas one is a piece of shit most of the time unless its pixie dust cold snow

 

[kbroderick]

by blower are you referring to a leaf blower or a snow blower?

I bought an electric oregon chain saw and it is awesome for small jobs, still go back to the gas hog for big cuts. Tried the electric oregon weed whacker but it would not accept standard attachments, had to return it and go back to gas.

I don't know which one he's referring to, but I will say that I'm really happy with the battery-powered DeWalt mower we got last year; some of the other brands with more of a lawn-tool focus probably make a better value if you're starting fresh, but I already had a pile of DeWalt batteries for power tools, including a chainsaw, blower, and string trimmer (plus saws, drill, etc). Not having to listen to the engine noise makes mowing the lawn substantially less annoying, but it's definitely a consumer-grade mower and not a commercial grade one (they do make the latter now, but I haven't seen any in person).

For homeowner-type use (i.e. pull it out and prune or cut up deadfall three times a year, months apart, maybe plus one or two trailwork days), I'm psyched with the battery-powered chainsaw. I don't use one regularly enough to keep a small engine happy or gas fresh, so not needing to deal with that is huge.

The string trimmer I have does accept different accessories, and I've seen varying reports about "standard" or "universal" accessories. About three times a year, I'd love to have a power-broom head for it, but not quite enough to suck up the cost associated with getting one.

I tried a battery/plugin electric snow blower a couple of years ago. It worked about on par with the single-stage gas one I'd used previously as long as it was plugged in or on a very fresh battery—which is to say not very well for New England conditions...but it was still somewhat of an improvement over lifting all the snow by hand. All of the electric ones I've seen have been single-stage models and, quite frankly, I don't think that's gonna do it around here. Probably doesn't help that I usually deal with snowfall after skiing (priorities and all), and it has a nasty habit of setting up if left alone.