gas prices this summer yikes

[Marc]

Ride a bike without a helmet.

 

[Marc]

Yeah, latex paint just doesn't have that magic aftertaste that lead does. What is this world coming to?

 

[YardSaleDad]

BRAVO!!! :beer:

I'll say it again. I still will never understand why those that are successful in life financially are often times looked negatively upon. Maybe a jealousy thing? I don't know, but it doesn't make sense to me...

It the ones who are successful at the expense of society that tend to garner negative vibes. Bill Gates does not have an MBA, treats his employees relatively well and gives back to society in substantial ways. Contrast that with Enron.


Maybe it's an ethics thing.

 

[ctenidae]

The trouble with CFL's in the house is that they do nothing for reducing peak load. They'll save you money, sure, but they don't actually result in any reduction in emissions from power plants. Now, if you could get your office to switch, that would have something of an impact.

 

[snoseek]

It the ones who are successful at the expense of society that tend to garner negative vibes. Bill Gates does not have an MBA, treats his employees relatively well and gives back to society in substantial ways. Contrast that with Enron.


Maybe it's an ethics thing.

making a bit of sense here...

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

This is a pretty interesting thread. And I'm amazed how it didn't get political!

I hope this isn't off-topic, but, with ski season just around the corner, what do we do about transport to the mountains? A Prius or Civic or whatever is nice and all, but for those of us that have a way's to go to get to the mountains, what do we drive?

Anyone given any thought to good cars/trucks for skiing that won't break the bank at the pump? Or, since ski gear isn't getting smaller, do we just have to chalk this one up to "skiing is expensive"?

I haven't seen anything on the market that would fit the bill. But, I haven't looked too hard yet.

 

[Marc]

making a bit of sense here...

I think Greg and YSD are speaking of two different groups of people. Greg was speaking of those who think making money period may be somehow inherently evil, or that someone besides the BOD should be responsible for setting compensation of upper management, or just the very fact that people outside the company make moral judgement based on compensation vs perceived value to the company (or more often, perceived value to society, which is a bit of a crock).

Everyone, including me, I think are appalled by the actions of those found guilty of embezzlement, fixing records, and lying to shareholders. I think more than anyone, rival CEO's and the like should be happy with the outcome from trials like Ken Lay and Dennis Koslowski, because they weren't playing by the rules. Now if there's a group of people who derive disdain for all upper management because of the actions of criminals, there isn't much that can be done to help that faulty line of logic (or emotion).

 

[awf170]

I hope this isn't off-topic, but, with ski season just around the corner, what do we do about transport to the mountains? A Prius or Civic or whatever is nice and all, but for those of us that have a way's to go to get to the mountains, what do we drive?

Anyone given any thought to good cars/trucks for skiing that won't break the bank at the pump? Or, since ski gear isn't getting smaller, do we just have to chalk this one up to "skiing is expensive"?

Just get a corolla or a civic and put snow tires on it. How often do you really run into snow deeper than 6-8 inches of main roads? Plus it will be way better at braking then a 4x4 SUV or Pickup since it weighs so much less.

 

[Marc]

Just get a corolla or a civic and put snow tires on it. How often do you really run into snow deeper than 6-8 inches of main roads? Plus it will be way better at braking then a 4x4 SUV or Pickup since it weighs so much less.

If you need room for gear (read: more than one passenger) I'd recommend either a Suby wagon or a crossover SUV (Escape, Rav4 etc.).

You can't have space and 40 mpg. Just doesn't work. But you can have adequate space and competent traction with high 20's probably 30 mpg on highways.

 

[awf170]

If you need room for gear (read: more than one passenger) I'd recommend either a Suby wagon or a crossover SUV (Escape, Rav4 etc.).

You can't have space and 40 mpg. Just doesn't work. But you can have adequate space and competent traction with high 20's probably 30 mpg on highways.

The Rav4 4x4 claims 27mpg which is very good, I'm not sure that I believe it but even 22-24mpg is still good for a 4x4 vehicle.

How much more room do you think a Subie wagon, or a crossover SUV has over a corolla or a civic? I think it is a lot less than people think. Some of the new smaller crossover have basically nothing behind the second row.

 

[ctenidae]

someone besides the BOD should be responsible for setting compensation of upper management,

You know, this proxy season will be interesting- a lot of companies are getting proxies that allow for a vote of shareholders to approve executive compensation. Most are non-binding votes right now, but the winds, they are a changing.

 

[Marc]

The Rav4 4x4 claims 27mpg which is very good, I'm not sure that I believe it but even 22-24mpg is still good for a 4x4 vehicle.

How much more room do you think a Subie wagon, or a crossover SUV has over a corolla or a civic? I think it is a lot less than people think. Some of the new smaller crossover have basically nothing behind the second row.

A lot. Even your Nissan has a lot more room than a corolla/civic. Start piling in packs and gear in a small car and you see a huge difference.

An Outback wagon is cavernous compared with a compact. I've taken a fairly long day trip with five people crammed into an Integra, and it was just a horrible experience.

Although I think I meant to mention the 4Runner, not the Rav4. Whichever is the one based on the Camry frame.

 

[awf170]

A lot. Even your Nissan has a lot more room than a corolla/civic. Start piling in packs and gear in a small car and you see a huge difference.

Probably. My dad and I have done a bunch of trips in a civic, and it seems to still have a bunch of room, but adding another person might be a problem. My altima is actually a pretty good ski vehicle, fits 3 people fine, and still gets over 30 mpg as long as I stay under 70. No reasonable vehicle is going to fit 4 people without a roof box anyway, so you're better off staying smaller.

Although I think I meant to mention the 4Runner, not the Rav4. Whichever is the one based on the Camry frame.

Nope, Rav4 is the small one.

 

[Marc]

Here's some numbers to get a better idea of what I'm talkin about-

Cargo room (cu ft):

Corolla: 12
4Runner: 42
Outback: 33.5
Civic: 11.5
Escape: 30

 

[hammer]

Here's some numbers to get a better idea of what I'm talkin about-

Cargo room (cu ft):

Corolla: 12
4Runner: 42
Outback: 33.5
Civic: 11.5
Escape: 30

Do you have the figures for the SUVs with the rear seats up? There's no way that my Outback has that much space unless you put the seats down...

 

[awf170]

Here's some numbers to get a better idea of what I'm talkin about-

Cargo room (cu ft):

Corolla: 12
4Runner: 42
Outback: 33.5
Civic: 11.5
Escape: 30

Yes, but wagons and SUV have way more room vertically, which isn't really used, since you still have to be able to see behind you. You will only use about half that height. So it really is more like:
Corolla: 12
4Runner: 21
Outback: 17
Civic: 11.5
Escape: 15

Still more but not a huge deal. Also, besides the 4runner you still will not be able to fit 4 people + skis in anyone of those vehicles comfortably without a roof box.

(I'm bored and still have another hour to kill before I go to work, so debating cargo room of SUV's vs. sedans is the most interesting thing I have going right now since it is 60 degrees out and raining.)

 

[Marc]

Do you have the figures for the SUVs with the rear seats up? There's no way that my Outback has that much space unless you put the seats down...

That's cargo room, which is defined as anything that is not potentially passenger space. AKA, everything from the rear seats to the back of the car.

 

[Marc]

Yes, but wagons and SUV have way more room vertically, which isn't really used, since you still have to be able to see behind you. You will only use about half that height. So it really is more like:
Corolla: 12
4Runner: 21
Outback: 17
Civic: 11.5
Escape: 15

Still more but not a huge deal. Also, besides the 4runner you still will not be able to fit 4 people + skis in anyone of those vehicles comfortably without a roof box.

(I'm bored and still have another hour to kill before I go to work, so debating cargo room of SUV's vs. sedans is the most interesting thing I have going right now since it is 60 degrees out and raining.)

Vertical spaced not used? Says who? That defeats the purpose of buying a wagon. It is not a necessity to see out of your rear view mirror. Just ask anyone who drives truck for a living. Just get better at using your sideviews. The extra cargo room a wagon affords is the only reason I mentioned them in the first place.

 

[hammer]

That's cargo room, which is defined as anything that is not potentially passenger space. AKA, everything from the rear seats to the back of the car.

I stand corrected...just looked at the figures for the Outback:

2008 Subaru Outback
Luggage Capacity: 33.5 cu. ft.
Maximum Cargo Capacity: 65 cu. ft.

Must account for being able to pile the luggage/cargo up to the roof.

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

I stand corrected...just looked at the figures for the Outback:

2008 Subaru Outback
Luggage Capacity: 33.5 cu. ft.
Maximum Cargo Capacity: 65 cu. ft.

Must account for being able to pile the luggage/cargo up to the roof.

Thanks for all the ideas.

I checked on the Subarus, and they average low 20s for the city and high 20s for the highway. Not bad at all. I don't think there's a "silver bullet," unfortunately. Wish we had access to the latest European diesels (at the right price).

Regarding luggage capacity vs. cargo capacity, I think it's a question of maximum amount of space with the seats up (luggage capacity) vs. maximum space with all but the two front seats down (cargo capacity). Could be wrong, though.