Environmental Damage at Cannon Mountain Ski Area

AdironRider said:

Lets see, you published maps for unauthorized trails cut by you and cronies, then put them up on your website. The list goes on. That "friend" is you.

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The alleged unauthorized trails were cut before I even set foot in the Ossipees. With the exception of some individuals posting internet forums who clearly have no clue what they're talking about, I was never accused of any wrong doing in the Ossipees.

I am not the Trail Bandit. I host his map free of charge. With the exception of the field on the Larcom Trail, every hiking trail on that map is open to the public. Your libel is disgusting. I also find it quite troubling that the administration on this site allows for it to continue.

Glenn said:

Looks like some errosion to me. A little topsoil, hydroseeding and you're good to go. Maybe some water bars if you want to be extra sure.

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The last batch of photos for now to be posted are online. This is a non-access road section of the Sky Line trail.

back to the topic at hand...

The above picture is still easily repaired and should be. State Run or not, this should be stabilized. It would not take much effore to repair.

Obviously this picture is older, as I am sure there is no snow on Cannon in July.

threecy said:

The last batch of photos for now to be posted are online. This is a non-access road section of the Sky Line trail.

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I guess they should have used the heli to bring the trucks up and mad it a $4M double chair.

From your own site after the widening of the Taft trail in 2009.



Looks about the same to me.

I support his "whole" agenda .. my endorsement is probably like gasoline on a fire.

threecy said:

The last batch of photos for now to be posted are online. This is a non-access road section of the Sky Line trail.

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jimmywilson69 said:

back to the topic at hand...

The above picture is still easily repaired and should be. State Run or not, this should be stabilized. It would not take much effore to repair.

Obviously this picture is older, as I am sure there is no snow on Cannon in July.

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The above photo is from June. That is not snow. That is ledge.

While it is eroded to the rock, it does appear Rock is VERY shallow. It's still easily fixed.

As a Civil Engineer, who is a certified proffesional in erosion and sediment control (CPESC), this is unaccetpable site "house keeping". In PA the local conservation district or DEP would be all over the property owner if pictures like this were preseneted, State Agency or not.

I can't quite figure out why all the hostility but a couple of comments...

1) IMO - consideration of leasing the ski area to a private operator is completely valid discussion

and

2) Whether a state or federal entity is managing, their charter includes stewardship of the land, these pictures do not paint a flattering picture of the the ski area/park management.

I would wonder if given the Fall schedule for construction whether time ran out for erosion control measures and debris was pushed to the side to be reclaimed this summer? I hope....

There is a silver lining to this whole saga.

Threecy has described many times about the police-state at Cannon against hikers. Hoards of his friends and well respected members of the hiking community are constantly turned away. So I'm very happy to see that he was able to take a few trips up Cannon for his photography project without feeling the boot of Cannon on his throat.

And threecy has now done us the kindness of showing us exactly what happens when you start allowing hordes of hikers up there.

jimmywilson69 said:

While it is eroded to the rock, it does appear Rock is VERY shallow. It's still easily fixed.

As a Civil Engineer, who is a certified proffesional in erosion and sediment control (CPESC), this is unaccetpable site "house keeping". In PA the local conservation district or DEP would be all over the property owner if pictures like this were preseneted, State Agency or not.

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The forum disagrees, this so called 'environmental' damage is totally acceptable. Most likely you are some kind of political hack with an axe to grind in Concord and Ossipee.

bobbutts said:

The forum disagrees, this so called 'environmental' damage is totally acceptable. Most likely you are some kind of political hack with an axe to grind in Concord and Ossipee.

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I have no idea what "The forum" thinks, but I can say that I personally have a problem with environmental damage the way it's described. Unfortunately, the way it's presented is so biased it lacks credibility. I'm going to have to hear it from a credible source or see it for myself to believe that this is the whole story.

It's sad too. I hate when agenda-driven politics usurps a valid point.

Angus said:

I can't quite figure out why all the hostility but a couple of comments...

1) IMO - consideration of leasing the ski area to a private operator is completely valid discussion

and

2) Whether a state or federal entity is managing, their charter includes stewardship of the land, these pictures do not paint a flattering picture of the the ski area/park management.

I would wonder if given the Fall schedule for construction whether time ran out for erosion control measures and debris was pushed to the side to be reclaimed this summer? I hope....

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My take-away is that a private ski operator on leased state land would have had the crap fined out of them. I think the problem here is poor oversight and accountability. A private operator wouldn't have risked the fines.

Geoff said:

My take-away is that a private ski operator on leased state land would have had the crap fined out of them. I think the problem here is poor oversight and accountability. A private operator wouldn't have risked the fines.

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Where is the precedence for the fines when it comes to ski areas?

There are privately run active ski areas with unused rusting into the ground infrastructure. Your Killington Devil's Fiddle lift would be an example. Are they less guilty because the metal poles are upright attached to a foundation instead of thrown off the side of a trail like what these pictures show at Mittersill? There are also plenty of active ski areas that have had major erosion and runoff issues due to mismanaged soil on their land (sometimes leased lands from National Forests) that don't get fined. Did Sunday River get fined when Barker completely washed out two years ago?

There are NELSAP areas on privately held land such as Mount Whitter in NH and Maple Valley in Vermont where the infrastructure has been allowed to rot into the landscape. I'm guessing the owners of the land don't manage for erosion in the slightest.

You also have State Parks on former ski areas with tons of infrastructure that is still in place rotting into the ground. Mount Agamenticus near me in Maine comes to mind.

I'm not saying that Cannon doesn't need to do a better job and clean up Mittersill, but to suggest that a private operator would have the crap fined out of them is wrong. Let's be real here. There's a lot of garbage going on at private ski areas and on public lands where NOTHING is being done about it. Standing on top of the mountain and saying Cannon is true evil is akin to pointing the entire blame of the steroid era in baseball on Roger Clemens. What was his nickname again and what number did he wear?

pardon, I have some ironing to do.

I hope you are better at ironing than environmental law. Even a trivial Google search pops up a number of environmental fines for Vermont ski resorts.

Mount Snow hit with fine for waste violations
by Christian Avard Deerfield Valley News
16 months ago | 1539 views | 4 | 19 | | MONTPELIER- Mount Snow was slapped with a stiff penalty from the state after hazardous waste violations were discovered during routine inspections.

According to a settlement stipulation filed March 4 at the Washington County Superior Court, Mount Snow has agreed to pay the state $95,000 in civil penalties for violating the state’s hazardous waste management rules. The violations were discovered by the Vermont Agency of Natural Resources during routine inspections on February 27 and April 29, 2008. Mount Snow has complied with the state, paid the fines, and is now in accordance with state environmental laws.




Read more: Deerfield Valley News - Mount Snow hit with fine for waste violations

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http://www.dvalnews.com/pages/full_...it+with+fine+for+waste+violations &id=6665403

Vt. ski resort faces environmental fines


Local News More>>Fatal arson case returns to court ThursdayFair Haven water, sewer taxes on the riseStorms create havoc across the regionEssex Jct church hall destroyed by fireLightning blamed for Westford fireWild weather topples trees, polesCrash closes Burlington beltlineAlleged drunk driver denies dragging police officerDrunk driving suspected in head-on crashNew details in N.H. double-murder caseStratton, Vermont - January 5, 2011

A Vermont ski resort has been hit with $80,000 in environmental fines.

The state attorney general's office says the Stratton Corporation and the fire district that provides water to the resort were responsible for two illegal discharges.

In 2004, 800,000 gallons of partially treated wastewater was accidentally released and in 2008, a sewer manhole overflowed, dumping raw sewage.

Along with the fines, the state says the resort has taken corrective action to prevent similar accidents.

WCAX News

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http://www.wcax.com/story/13789360/vt-ski-resort-faces-environmental-fines?redirected=true

Not sure mismanaged hazardous waste containers and releasing raw sewage are a fair comparison to rusting lift infrastructure on the sides of a ski trail.

I gave four examples of ski facilities that have the exact same thing going on at them that Cannon has going on. One of them being a state park (Mount A). You can't hold Cannon to the fire unless you hold all who are guilty of the same thing to the fire.

Maybe I'll go take pictures of all the garbage at the Big A, produce a website and start an internet campaign going after Augusta and how they are mismanaging the conservation lands and park.

bobbutts said:

The forum disagrees, this so called 'environmental' damage is totally acceptable. Most likely you are some kind of political hack with an axe to grind in Concord and Ossipee.

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Is this directed at me, because it doesn't make sense... especially since I live in PA. I could care less about other State's government. I'm just posting about erosion issues.

jimmywilson69 said:

Is this directed at me, because it doesn't make sense... especially since I live in PA. I could care less about other State's government. I'm just posting about erosion issues.

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I was confused by that statement too.

The point is nobody seems to be here arguing the point, it's about discrediting threecy and refuting everything he posts. Nobody even responded to your post and I doubt most even read it. Probably the only worthwhile and professional opinion in the whole thread.

If people feel there is no problem I think they should argue you and not threecy